David BrownDavid Brown is a contractor in the Sales and Estimating department at Metcon. Through Metcon, David is helping provide pre-construction and tenant improvement work. Metcon specializes in building success for corporate offices, life science, industrial spaces, retail, and building repositioning. 

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Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn: 

  • David Brown discusses his biggest task as a contractor: educating clients on pricing 
  • The changes taking place in the construction industry during the pandemic — and David’s predictions for the future 
  • Metcon’s full-service design-build firm
  • What are the typical challenges for contractors working with multiple departments?
  • David talks about Metcon’s origin story
  • How David got into the construction industry — and how he advocated for his career advancement
  • What steps can you take to start your career in the construction industry?
  • David discusses what he’s looking forward to in the next few months

In this episode…

What does it take to get into the construction industry — especially when you have no prior experience? And what opportunities are arising out of the pandemic? 

David Brown is sharing the steps that anyone can take to start their career in construction management. According to David, you have to love what you do if you want to succeed. In his experience, there have been many challenges and educational moments. But, there are also plenty of opportunities stemming from advancements in medicine and technology. As the world begins to reopen, David predicts that the construction industry will thrive on many new projects.

In this episode of Watching Paint Dry, Greg Owens is joined by David Brown, from Sales and Estimating at Metcon. David talks about his career advancement in the construction industry, how he navigates projects and communicates between multiple departments, and his strategies for educating clients on the construction process. Plus, David shares how you can get your career started in the industry. Stay tuned!

Resources Mentioned in this episode

Sponsor for this episode…

This episode is brought to you by McCarthy Painting, where we serve commercial and residential clients all around the San Francisco Bay area. 

We’ve been in business since 1969 and served companies such as Google, Autodesk, Abercrombie & Fitch, FICO, First Bank, SPIN, and many more. 

If you have commercial facilities in the San Francisco Bay Area and need dependable painters, visit us on the web at www.mccarthypainting.com or email info@mccarthypainting.com, and you can check out our line of services and schedule a free estimate by clicking here.

Episode Transcript

Intro  0:03  

Welcome to the Watching Paint Dry podcast where we feature today’s top facility managers, property managers, and property owners talking about the challenges and opportunities of managing hundreds of 1000s of square feet of real estate and how to beautify and improve their properties. Now, let’s get started with the show.

Greg Owens  0:31  

Hello, everyone. This is Greg Owens with the Watching Paint Dry podcast where we’ve been continuing our series of talking to building owners, property managers, facilities managers, and all the support and contractors that are out there in this entire industry, which is over I think it’s over $2 trillion in business. It’s unbelievable. What is this date, it’s we’re at the end of April right now. And it feels good here in the San Francisco Bay Area, things are opening up more and more. And it’s exciting to see that and a lot of work is coming in. And it’s been unbelievably craziness lately, with the amount of people wanting projects done. And this podcast is sponsored by McCarthy Painting. It’s my painting company. I’ve been in this industry since I was 16 years old, when I was actually painting every day. And now we are a full-service painting contractor and we serve the entire San Francisco Bay Area. And if you would like to learn more about our services, we do all kinds of projects from we’ve done things for Google, Autodesk, h&m, Spin, Zooks, and many, many other types of companies interior and exterior. So if you’d like to learn more, go to McCarthypainting.com or you can email us at info@McCarthypainting.com. And I’m really excited because I’m going to be talking to another fellow contractor David Brown of Metcon. Metcon does tenant improvement work at primarily and and this is going to be a fun conversation because sometimes we get into a little bits of that, but not not to the extent that you do, Dave. And we also have Katrina Stephenson on the call, she works for McCarthy Painting, and sometimes she chimes in with some questions, as she is learning all about this industry. Welcome to the podcast. Dave,

David Brown  2:33  

thank you so much for having Yeah,

Greg Owens  2:37  

we were just talking, as I popped on, and you were talking to Katrina, and I heard there’s such a big aspect of what we do of education and holding a client’s hand of what this process looks like. And to speak a little bit more about that, because I loved what you were saying earlier, because it’s so true.

David Brown  2:54  

Oh, yeah. So you know, everybody has clients that aren’t from the Bay Area. And so whatever region of the US that they live in, they get accustomed to how business is done in their neighborhood, including pricing and procurement of whatever items, you know, could be lighting, which could take forever, these days are such a lag, whatever design that you have, it’s just going to be different in other parts of the country than it is here. And, of course, here we have our own style and uniqueness that is much different than the rest of the country. And so trying to educate clients on you know, construction, and hate to talk about the lazy construction, get a hold your hand through that process as well. But educating on price is probably my biggest chore, my biggest task pricing varies all over our cost of living here in the Bay Area’s extremely high, more more so than about anywhere else. So those are, those are some of the bigger responsibilities as a contractor we have is just letting people know this is construction. It never is easy. It never goes as planned, you have to kind of stay nimble with your approach to a project, yes, you have a schedule that you need to keep and you know, you make that schedule, you agree to that schedule, but the activity may switch often. And you got to be able to roll with the punches. And and that’s very difficult for somebody who’s, you know, been to college, and, you know, been taught through a series of books and lectures and so on, and then they get out in the real world. And, oops, that just it rarely applies to practical application. Right. Oh, you know, these are the, these are the things in our clients, their bottom, you know, they come from college and income from that mindset of Oh, it’s, it’s gonna go smooth. It’s going to be great and it’s going to cost $15 a square voting poll, this is amazing, I have the budget for it. And then they buy a building in San Francisco. And oops, that didn’t go as planned. construction costs are $200 per square foot. And we have our delays in our, in, in the design and, and what the architect has, has their vision of things. And, and yeah, so things can go sideways quickly, if the contractor is not on their game every day.

Greg Owens  5:30  

Yeah, that is so true. And tell me a little bit about, like the types of projects that Metcon gets involved in, in at your, what’s your sweet spot for projects.

David Brown  5:40  

So, pre-COVID, our sweet spot was really in the TI market. And we have several really, you know, big clients throughout the Bay Area. And, you know, but now COVID is hit, we’ve got this pandemic, and there just is no tenant improvements at all, if there are those slamming. And the bids are so competitive, that it’s it’s hard to make money in that arena right now. So we’ve shifted a little bit where we got into the labs, clean rooms, restaurants are starting to pick up a little bit here, now we’re seeing a little bit more bid opportunity with restaurants with specialty food items, you know, cookies, that kind of thing that’s going across the board. And then we have a few building owners who have been a little bit more proactive and saying, you know, what, we need to do a little bit more, you know, to our core restaurants, or our lobbies, or our parking lot needs to be refreshed. And we need to get striping, and those kinds of things, which, you know, those property owners really get it and you know, when this thing is over, and people start to then come back to work, they’re gonna be those properties will be the first ones that at least they’re, they’re ready. And they’re, they look nice,

Greg Owens  6:56  

right? Yeah, I mean, it’s, uh, we we had to do quite a bit of the same we commercial work, because a lot of the stuff we do is inside offices and that kind of stuff, and repainting and changing colors, or when when companies move employees around, we come in and clean up and paint. And that all ended. And we switch to a lot more doing residential because then you have people sitting at home and they’re staring at their house. And they’re, they’re like, what can I do to improve it? I like what you were saying too, because like, I’ve run into this all the time where I think it’s like the HGTV effect, right? Like they watch HGTV and they what they see, they see that you can remodel a kitchen in a weekend, right? Go ahead, Katrina,

Katrina Stephenson  7:34  

actually, TikTok, as you well know, has been more so you know, people interests, but I’ve noticed that, you know, the live walls or the wallpaper, they get an idea and they really want us to copy it. We

Greg Owens  7:49  

can’t right and then you run into like the the city of San Francisco where there’s so many challenges to working on a building. Now I know I was just looking at a property that has they bought kind of like what you were saying they just came in and they bought this property. And then they ran into the Historical Society, right? Where they have to stay within certain parameters and doing what they’re doing, which causes that cost to just skyrocket. And so how are things? How are you feeling about the this this spring and summer right now, with the work like we’re seeing more and more activity, I’m curious to know if you’re seeing that too, and in which arena is you’re seeing it?

David Brown  8:27  

So yeah, we’re we’re seeing a bit of a tick up in in opportunities, it’s still you know, I have a bigger presence in the East Bay. So it’s, I think we’re going to have a little bit more of a lag than those in the city of San Francisco is ground zero. You know, everybody and their neighbor wants to be there and they should be there. It’s iconic, and it you know, it’s got its own energy. And so being in the East Bay, particularly out in Pleasanton, San Ramon, Dublin, that area, it’s a little bit more quiet and things that will just lag. So you know, we’re seeing restaurants still doing lab work, we’ve got some medical stuff that we’re bidding, as well cosmetic new cosmetic places that are that’s kind of a hot area. Now. To be honest, as is the medical profession, getting into cosmetic, just easy stuff like laser hair removal, you know, just easy Botox, you know, single or double procedures that only take a few minutes, these types of facilities are starting to get really popular as the advances in the in medicine and technology goes there. So we’re very optimistic about the summer and then also the fall coming forward just because we are seeing that uptick in opportunity.

Greg Owens  9:46  

That’s great. Yeah, and I and I can imagine doing like lab spaces and doctors offices is such a specialty niche, that it’s, it’s it’s more complicated than doing other types of projects. tenant improvement work and that kind of thing. So you can it’s, it’s more specialized, is that correct?

David Brown  10:05  

Oh, yeah. So each one has its own challenges, you know, you get into the medical stuff, and all of a sudden, the electrical alone just becomes its own separate big banana. And then you’ve got your HVAC leads. And those two pieces can, as you know, be extremely pricey. HVAC is, you know, probably the biggest ticket item and medical doing any medical facility. And so again, kind of goes back to educating those clients, you know, you have new people wanting to get into that industry has a soft spot right now. And so, you know, we design-build them something that we know that and then they look at that price tag, and you go, Wait, you know, I wasn’t expecting that $200,000 bill for mechanical HVAC? Well, you have nine operatory rooms, and each of them hold a load of XYZ. Yeah, I mean, this is where it’s at. So you know, in that, and speaking to that terms, dig me a little bit difficult reaching their expectations, because they’ve been told by brokers and property owners, one thing, for instance, goes back to the cost per square foot, you know, if a broker or a property management company or building owner says, this is a great facility for you, great, great property for you, we believe it’s going to be $80 a square foot for your ti, we’re going to kick in a little money to help with it, and then that ti is $350 a square foot. And that makes my job even more difficult because they want me to justify that price cost when it’s really, you know, when they’re needed. And, you know, in the beginning, this is, this is kind of the handholding that we have to go through Now that everything is getting more scrutinized, and the dollar haven’t flown in, like they did two years ago, two years ago, we had we were slammed with work, you know, every general contractor had projects going at the same time. And money was just flowing, and everybody was buying more your tickets, and so on and so forth. So,

Greg Owens  12:06  

yeah, no kidding, no kidding. And so tell me more about what Metcon gets into. Because it sounds like you guys do the full service of like design and build. Also,

David Brown  12:15  

yes, we do the design and build we are a full turnkey company. So we can take you from concept, we work with several wonderful architects in the in the Bay Area as well, we have engineers, so we can really take you down from what your concept is to putting it on paper, getting the permit to finishing the product, and you move in all the way to a you need, you know, security cameras and, you know, exterior signage, I mean, we can really take the power away,

Greg Owens  12:48  

right. And I can see like, there’s some great benefits in that because sometimes the clients start with like a designer or somebody like that, and then they hire an architect, and then they start looking for the general contractor to come in and build everything, right. But there seems to me to be some really solid benefits in going straight to a design-build firm like yours, where where you you have like, you can you can start that conversation of what the client is wanting to have, and then you probably know which architect would be best suited for them.

David Brown  13:21  

Exactly. And we then at that point, we can help contain some costs, you know, reviewing the space that they’re, you know, wanting to lease and get in early enough where we can, you know, kind of steer them into a different direction. You know, I have a good example with a Coffee and Water Lab that I did down in Sunnyvale, I was recommended to this client, I actually took him from stages of looking for properties, helping him decide on what property would be best for his, you know, constant and the construction costs. And they help contain Oh, so our relationship actually started Well, before you would even consider going to a contract. But at the end of the day, our client is extremely happy and appreciative of the fact that he didn’t, you know, took the burden away from him having to guess it, these decisions, these big, major decisions he would take, whether it be the location or you know, what kind of amenities are available for that suite and how it matched up with his business. Oh, yeah.

Greg Owens  14:27  

Was that a coffee? Was that a retail coffee? Or was that coffee like, like, experimenting on coffee kind of place?

David Brown  14:35  

No, it’s it’s a retail coffee. Interesting client. He’s from Asia, and he’s he’s got his own special blend and its own, you know, special water that he he does with things and pizza. He wasn’t in necessarily in the coffee business. He’s more of a brand. Mm hmm. You know, kind of more into branding and helping companies brand and then during that process of him helping us He kind of fell in love with coffee and the different ways he could brew coffee and and he’s pretty excited. Oh,

Katrina Stephenson  15:08  

that’s really inspiring.

David Brown  15:09  

Yeah, it was it, the timing really honestly couldn’t have been worse for him. Because this we’d started the process about four or five months, pre COVID. So having, you know, and this is a reach, having to negotiate and kind of navigate this project, also was just very difficult in the pandemic. So is is now open the doors and Gosh, I probably need to get down to Sunnyvale and kind of check on him and seeing how things are going. Now that, you know, things are starting to open up a bit. We’re not we’re not quite there. We’re where we need to be, but we’re getting

Greg Owens  15:49  

right. And what was the name of that coffee place? Because I’m we’re liking coffee drinkers

Katrina Stephenson  15:55  

over here.

David Brown  15:57  

Okay, no, it’s Coffee and Water Lab. That’s the name of it.

Greg Owens  16:00  

Coffee Water Lab. All right. I’ll be down that way this week. So I’ll definitely put that and I like these new third-wave coffee places that are that are, you know, the cool workspaces, too. And sometimes they have great outdoor outdoor seating and stuff. We’re doing some work for Philz Coffee right now. It’s been wonderful. Because like, if I get there early enough, before they close, they give me a coffee.

David Brown  16:26  

Nice. Nice. And now he’s good. Yeah. So

Greg Owens  16:30  

I was gonna say like, that’s so wonderful that you help the client in that whole process of looking at the spaces, especially for like a retail coffee establishment, because it’s usually not a big space that they’re looking at. And they’re looking for location. And they’re looking for possibilities. But then there’s all these rules around like, I mean, like a 600, square-foot coffee place could have five sinks in it, right? Yeah. There’s multiple places to wash your hands, and then also needs a handicap restroom, right? And the client, and this is that education process that you can come in on the front end and say, hey, look, you’re going to have a few $100,000 in plumbing here to get all the plumbing needs, you’re going to need for this space to this location, because it’s because of the way it’s built.