Badreddine Benabdallah is a Facilities
and Workplace Expert at BUILDEENG. BUILDEENG is a real estate and project management consulting agency that specializes in supporting clients as they transform, improve, and upgrade their facility and processes. At BUILDEENG, Badreddine leads and supports facility management outsourcing projects, managing change, transition, transformation, and stabilization.
Badreddine has a consistent track record of successfully employing the best practices for facility management with a broad range of expertise in real estate, workplace management, facilities management, building operations and maintenance, and more.
Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn:
- Badreddine Benabdallah recalls how he and his family have handled the pandemic in Paris, France
- How will the lockdown change the future of the workplace?
- Understanding the fads in facility management and how to work around them
- Badreddine talks about working-from-home and the future of COVID vaccines in France
- Finding a hybrid solution for the eventual return to the office.
- Badreddine describes his transition from facility management to consulting
- The importance of being a generalist in the facility management industry
In this episode…
How do you create a safe and comfortable environment for your employees? A survey or a few case studies can provide a few insights on what makes employees feel comfortable at work. But that’s not always the case; sometimes, you need a consultant with over ten years of experience in creating a stable and productive environment for countless employees.
Badreddine Benabdallah has worked with numerous clients on an international stage to improve and assist companies on both a large and smaller scale. At BUILDEENG, he’s provided customers with profile consolidation to upgrade and transform their facility—and, eventually, exit their building with ease of mind.
In this week’s episode of Watching Paint Dry, host Greg Owens welcomes experienced Workplace and Facilities Expert, Badreddine Benabdallah. They discuss the differences and similarities between France and the US around the pandemic, the future of work-from-home, and creating a safe environment for employees returning to the office. Badreddine also shares his thoughts on how the shift of employees moving away from the city will create a new work culture.
Resources Mentioned in this episode
- Greg Owens on LinkedIn
- McCarthy Painting
- McCarthy Painting Contact No.: 415-383-2640
- McCarthy Painting Email Address: info@mccarthypainting.com
- Badreddine Benabdallah on LinkedIn
- BUILDEENG on LinkedIn
Sponsor for this episode…
This episode is brought to you by McCarthy Painting, where we serve commercial and residential clients all around the San Francisco Bay area.
We’ve been in business since 1969 and served companies such as Google, Autodesk, Abercrombie & Fitch, FICO, First Bank, SPIN, and many more.
If you have commercial facilities in the San Francisco Bay Area and need dependable painters, visit us on the web at www.mccarthypainting.com or email info@mccarthypainting.com, and you can check out our line of services and schedule a free estimate by clicking here.
Episode Transcript
Intro 0:03
Welcome to the Watching Paint Dry podcast where we feature today’s top facility managers, property managers and property owners talking about the challenges and opportunities of managing hundreds of thousands of square feet of real estate and how to beautify and improve their properties. Now, let’s get started with the show.
Greg Owens 0:31
There we go. All right. This is the Watching Paint Dry podcast. And here we are into December of 2020. And I hope everybody’s doing good out there. I know that the San Francisco Bay Area just went back into lockdown because of this pandemic. And but when you drive around the city streets of San Francisco, it doesn’t seem like anything’s changed. I think, you know, in a lot of ways, there’s so many people that are just kind of going to go on with their lives. And we’ll see what happens. But hopefully everybody’s families are safe out there and, and doing well. This podcast is brought to you by my company McCarthy Painting, and we do interior and exterior painting projects beautifying and protecting people’s homes and businesses throughout the San Francisco Bay Area. And you can find out more by going to McCarthyPainting.com. I’m super excited. We have an international guest on the podcast today. It’s Badreddine Benabdallah from Paris. And he is an experienced facilities and workplace expert with extensive experience in all aspects of commercial real estate outsourcing and project management for international companies. Welcome, Badreddine to our podcast.
Badreddine Benabdallah 2:02
Thanks, Greg. Thanks for the invite.
Greg Owens 2:04
Yeah. And we’ve also got Katrina Stevenson on the call too. And she chimes in, she’s learning all about facilities management as we explore facilities management, internationally here on this podcast. So it’s great to have you on here. How are you doing, like personally, your family, everybody there in Paris?
Badreddine Benabdallah 2:28
Well, I have to say doing well, even if the country is locked down. But fortunately, kids are going to school. So this is, this is a great thing, because on the first lockdown, kids were at home, and it was a little bit difficult to keep them following the learning courses trying to do it’s not regular business, but trying to keep working. But the activity also slowed down due to the pandemic. So let’s say it was a good thing to to stay in family and spend time with the kids. Yeah, but now during this second confinement, look down, it’s a little bit better as kids are going to school,
Greg Owens 3:05
you can send the kids away. I know. I know. I’m watching families like just suffered greatly by having your kids at home and having to do that homeschooling over zoom. I could not imagine myself as a child sitting in front of a zoom call. And being able to pay attention it would it wouldn’t. Yeah, it wouldn’t interest me whatsoever. It’s not easy. At all. Yeah. How old are they?
Badreddine Benabdallah 3:30
15 month, 6 years and 10 years?
Katrina Stevenson 3:34
Oh, wow.
Greg Owens 3:35
Damn. Yeah.
Badreddine Benabdallah 3:36
big challenge.
Katrina Stevenson 3:39
A lot of Energy.
Badreddine Benabdallah 3:40
Yeah.
What’s more difficult than doing facilities? management? Haha,
Greg Owens 3:44
yeah, no kidding. Yeah. So, you know, I’m curious, like, what’s going on for you work wise? And, and trying to figure out what’s the differences between like, what’s going on in Paris? And what’s going on in San Francisco? I’m assuming a lot of things are the same? Are you guys? Um, are people back into their businesses and buildings and stuff? Or is it like, maybe just very minimal, if anybody at all?
Badreddine Benabdallah 4:11
Yeah, it’s very minimal. The government is trying to keep people working from home. But I think it’s becoming we can get probably read of it, or what will be the vaccine effect. So I think we will have to wait because now they’re talking about a fall in the numbers, we’ll we’ll need to see what is happening. And personally, I hope that we will come to a certain normality because even if people are saying that tomorrow will will be completely different from what yesterday was. But I hope that at the end of the day, you know, it’s it’s about humans, and we need to leave community in society and having social interactions. We need to meet people at the office, to see faces and to get to interact with people. So I don’t think I mean, I have to say also This pandemic made some miracles. Hmm. Because, for example, in France, yeah, yeah, because, I mean, for some companies, remote work or homework was something that couldn’t been considered anyway, right? Because it’s about the culture and the mindset. And I think that people working from home will not be as performant as if they were at the office. So a lot of companies and government administration and stuff like this, experience it, so they know how it could look like a lot of companies as well jumped on it. So this is a very good thing. And the second thing is that I’ve seen some project, mainly it, you know, like migrating from an old version of Windows over office, to Office 365. And deploying all of these tools, like teams and stuff like this happening like this, while it should have taken three or five years to test to do beta testers and pools of testing and safe enough or not. So this is the kind of miracles that this pandemic have done,
Greg Owens 6:05
change the workplace forever, right? Like, definitely. Yeah, you know, even when, even when there’s no more virus, like, there’s gonna be a lot of companies that that might stick to a model. Now, they’ll probably have a model where it’s like, you know, a little bit more
Badreddine Benabdallah 6:20
hybrid.
Greg Owens 6:21
Yeah, but a lot of companies, I know, a lot of personal biz friends of mine that gave up their leases, you know, they have like 20 employees or 50 employees. And they’re like, no, we’re probably never going back to leasing a building. You know, and it’s also changed, at least here in America. I don’t know how it’s going in France there. But in America here, like all the surrounding areas, and cities away from San Francisco have now become very popular. So people have moved to like Lake Tahoe, in remote remotely from these other little towns. Right? And are you seeing that same kind of thing happening in?
Badreddine Benabdallah 6:56
Same thing? Yeah, in Paris, a lot of people moved outside the city. Because having had this experience of the the lockdown, they found that the small apartments in Paris can be an option if this is likely to happen in the future. So a lot of them have the, you know, in France, where we have the chance to have good train network. Yeah. So you can leave something like, say, five to 600 kilometers from Paris, but you can get in in two hours by train solid, people moved even far away from the city to get better living conditions and have bigger homes.
Greg Owens 7:34
And I know the really wealthy people of Paris, they usually had like a southern home, right, like, yeah, that was usually I mean, I’ve met quite a few different people in from France. And that was like they, you know, they would spend their summers in the south of France, right?
Badreddine Benabdallah 7:50
Yeah, yeah, Paris is becoming more and more expensive. So you might have a lot of people, I mean, having this, this option to have a kind of secondary home outside of the city. So yeah, a lot of people have moved. So this is I mean, one of the changes, the other change in France that there was, for a few years now, a fight against the the open space, and the flex space, and all of these fantastic names that we give to the workplace. And a lot of people found an opportunity to say, look, this will never work. I mean, we have to have private offices, because it’s about the virus, and you can get contaminated, and you have to be in your enclosed space. So I think this is not sustainable options. But I’m seeing I mean, discussing, discussing with a lot of clients, these topics are coming back on the table. And people are saying, Well, yeah, I mean, it’s not an option. I mean, it has it has to be safe. We need to have enclosed office. Personally, I’m not convinced that people that companies can get rid of headquarters or right, traditional workplaces offices, because you still need to have a great meet.
Greg Owens 9:02
I agree. I think there’s like a fad happening, right? Like, and that they’re jumping on the fad bandwagon, kind of like, like you hear the into people that talk about, and you mentioned it with the different names of the different workplace environments. But you see it with like, I love this with like intermittent fasting, which is really just skipping breakfast, like people have been skipping breakfast for years, but then they now they call it like, I’m doing the intermittent fasting. And, you know, and it becomes like this fad, right, where people are doing that. Yeah. And I do think there’s like, you know, there’s been a reason why a lot of companies really did well, because of that collaboration in that work environment where you can you can just come in and get stuff done with your, with your fellow human beings by just going and having a quick little meeting right face to face. Absolutely. Yeah. And I think as social creatures, that’s a that’s a major necessity. And I also want to go back because you mentioned um, the working from home, there’s this Don’t have the proper ergonomics and that kind of stuff and the health and well being of the employees from working from home. Yes. Have you also seen like the psychological issues that or anything like that coming up within France?
Badreddine Benabdallah 10:13
It is Yeah, definitely. Yeah, this is a major concern after the first lockdown a lot of fingers. were predicting to have a kind of second wave. But this wave could be psychological because I mean, getting disconnected from a social life impacted a lot of people I mean, depends if you’re living in a family and with your family, or if you’re living by your own, but getting locked in a small apartment few months. I mean, I’m going to at the end, it could harm your health and your brain. So yeah, there is a lot of concern about this, and a lot of cases reported of people being really sick by the fact of being disconnected from from normal life for such a long time. Right.
Greg Owens 10:54
Right. I know that Katrina’s on this podcast right now, too. And she works for me. And I know for her health and well being she needed to go to the office and so she’s one of those people,
she’s been the only one allowed but she’s she’s like, is where I this is like my safe haven to get away from the family and get away from, you know, the
focus on work, right, like and I write and one of the things that I used to do a tremendous amount because I’m like, going out and about all day long, is I would use cafes and and work from those like that became my work environment, probably for the last 20 years. And right now that’s stripped away, because now it’s wintertime, and it’s colder, and it’s harder to sit outside plus it San Francisco just closed all that down. Yeah, like you said, like, now I find myself like sitting in my truck, like turned to one side, like on a zoom call or on a calls. And I’m like, This isn’t good for my body. I’ve got to like change. Yeah, and then like, it’s, it’s interesting to see what’s going to become so far like, the new normal is like, everything’s changing all the time, really rapidly, rapidly. And it’ll be interesting to see what happens like so what’s the talk in, in France right now about the vaccine? And is there any front runners? And then are they coming out with it? Like, what did I know here in America, they’re gonna do like, the vaccine is supposed to start coming to health workers first or and people need any talk like that that’s going on that you’ve seen?
Badreddine Benabdallah 12:34
Well, they’re saying that it will come beginning of next year, and they will start vaccinating old people, because they are kind of at the higher considered high risk. Yeah. So. But there’s also be concerned because people, I mean, the majority of the people here are not really convinced that the vaccine would be a good thing to go for. So I think there will be a big challenge here. And I mean, you know, I think people lost confidence in, in the government at the beginning of the pandemic, because they said, you don’t have to wear a mask. And then they came back and said, Oh, you have to wear masks even at home. So you know, there was also a big discussion here in France about a drug called the oxy clerkin that were used in, in the south of France, with the showing a very good result were were elsewhere, they prevented doctors from using it and they also prevented doctors from taking care of people because if you’re sick, they tell you to stay home. And if you’re in a bad shape, in a bad condition, then you have to come to the hospital. So this created a lot of a lot of issues and people in our listening to what the government is saying but with a lot of questions. And
Greg Owens 14:12
I’m so glad you’re saying that because I think we I always think we’re the only messed up country, right like and that we’ve been making like unbelievable blunders all along. I mean, ours are pretty big and massive, right. But you know, always do things big in America, including including pandemics but like, it’s interesting, because I hear the same thing from you is like people have a very sort of very cautious view of the government right now and of what’s coming out and they don’t think that it’s in our best interest or that they actually know what they’re, they’re doing right. And they and a lot of ways they don’t because we’re watching science unfold. Right? They don’t we really don’t know much about this. This particular virus, right there still hasn’t been enough case. I I’ve been trying To read the case studies of like workplace environment where COVID spreads through, and there’s only a handful that I was able to find is not very many at all right? Yeah. And we don’t know. Like, do the mask actually really work? Or not yet, there’s been a few nice case studies where we’re like, you know, like, I saw one where a hairdresser had COVID, she was cutting people’s hair, and she cut like, 50 people’s hair, but everybody was wearing a mask. And nobody had gotten the virus in that in that in that scenario, which is pretty good. Right? But that lady Yeah, what do you think about like somebody that’s cutting the hair, they’re standing behind most of the time, so they’re not talking right in your face? That kind of thing? Right? Yeah. I don’t know, the viral loads. Right. So it’s really interesting to see. What have it. What do you see like the companies, the major companies doing in Paris, right. So like, like, like, Louie, Louie, Louie Vuitton? Is there, what other major brands come out of out of Paris?
Badreddine Benabdallah 16:06
You mean, how do they approaching? Coming back to work?
Greg Owens 16:11
Yeah. Or just like, what do they do? Yeah. What are you seeing from them on the ground? Because I know this is culturally like what I’ve noticed in America is that it depends on the company culture, of how risk taking they are or not risk taking they are. So for example, like Google, Google’s like, nope, Everybody stay home until July Now, something like that. Right? And face? Well, way.
Badreddine Benabdallah 16:34
Well, most of the companies are keeping their people outside the office only. I mean, what I know is only few government agencies, because they have the unions and the unions are pushing also to have people allowed to go to the office. So they’re spending, let’s say, one or two days, hopes, mainly international companies are preventing employee, let’s say, 99%, to come to the office, I’ve been to some headquarters last month, and walking through the workplace there, let’s say on something like 300 workstation, there were, let’s say 10 people, some other French companies, it’s also about culture. I mean, you know, these international companies are always very strict on everything about the well being health and safety and stuff like this. Yeah, some French companies are allowing their stuff to come one or two days to the office. Because also I think they are conscious that a lot of people don’t have the opportunity to have good working conditions at home. So they allow them to come to the office, I have a friend of mine working not far from my house and think they’re allowed to come two days per week to the office
Greg Owens 17:46
now, so and for you yourself, like what what kind of projects are, are being asked of you now because you’re you’re really you’re you’re an entrepreneur, you’re you come into companies, and you help them solve problems, and you help them with moves. What kinds of things are you seeing? Do you see any trends right now and what’s being asked of you is when it comes to coordinating these projects,
Badreddine Benabdallah 18:09
well, actually started two weeks ago to lead a big refurbishment project for a major health care company. And what I’m hearing during the discussion that we do have plans now to develop activity based working and an assigned seating and stuff like this. But they still say that they are working on the new normality. And this might change a little bit the planning strategy. But I have my own opinion, I’m not convinced that will, this will change so much the culture and the fact that people needs to come to the office. Sure. I mean, it will allow, let’s say, between two to three days, when needed to work from home, when you have the opportunity to do so. But I think you have to keep them in a seat for your, for your people in an opportunity to work. It could be in the office if you had a big headquarter or it could it could be in a co working space. I was like you working from some cafes and restaurants from time to time. Depends on what you have to do. Because if you need to take a call, it’s not really easy to take it at the cafe.
Greg Owens 19:18
Yeah,
Badreddine Benabdallah 19:18
I think again, as I said earlier, it’s it’s still too early. We don’t have enough information to predict the future. And I think it’s in realistic. I mean, depending on the size of the company and the business you’re doing but more globally, I think it’s in realistic to say that you can get rid of for headquarters or have an office. I don’t think this will work. I’m not sure that you can keep a company culture or business performance, having all your all of your people spread around the city and not meeting not catching up. And again, I mean, what what I’m also seeing is that spending your life between zoom and teams or your media Didn’t go back to back. So you don’t have to. I mean, some people are saying, but they don’t have time to get lunch or things like this. So this is also what is causing all of this sickness and health problems.
Greg Owens 20:11
Yeah, that’s interesting that you say Katrina looks like you have a question there.
Katrina Stevenson 20:15
It’s totally agreeing that there needs to be a home base. Almost like like, like the militia. You know, you need to have your your soldiers come back to home base.
Greg Owens 20:25
Yeah, no, I think you’re right, too. Cuz like, I There seems to be a lot more like work, busy work going on, but not getting stuff done, let’s say, with all these zoom calls, right? Like, you feel busy. You’re, you know, you go from one to the next to the next. And then but you’re like, wow, what did we actually accomplish here today? We had these calls we had these meetings with, but what got actually done? workwise? That’s it. That’s interesting.
Badreddine Benabdallah 20:54
I agree.
Greg Owens 20:54
I agree. Yeah. It’ll be interesting to see what happens.
Badreddine Benabdallah 20:58
Yeah, I think one of the good things that this is this pandemic is also promoting is the fact that now I mean, the people that are thinking about, I mean, having a smart approach of what, what the future could be those who are not fighting against the open space in the assigned seating, and now looking for more collaborative space, because they’re convinced that if you I mean, coming to the office should be an opportunity to to meet collaborate. Yeah. So some of them are thinking they know that they don’t need a private office, but they need more space adapted to creation, co creation, collaboration, formal or informal meetings, and stuff like this.
Greg Owens 21:38
Yeah, that’s interesting. Because like, we’re we’ve been doing some, like refurbishing or painting of conference rooms, because they’re refik, configuring the conference rooms so that they can have like, maybe this conference room used to host 20 people, but now they’re going to host six, then they’re going to separate them a little more. Right? And then they’re going to have and we but they still want like they have the TV with the you know, for the zoom calls. But they still want Dry Erase paint whiteboards on all the walls so that the people can get up and like, do that. Are you guys? Do you guys do that in France used to dry erase paint? Yeah, yeah, super popular here. And we do. We do a tremendous amount of it. But it’s interesting to see like, they’re, they’re reconfiguring some of these right now. So that, you know, in getting ready to come back some of the companies in San Francisco, I noticed, because I was walking through some of them, and I won’t name them because they might get in trouble. But they are, they were they were having a lot more people back in the office and doing that with the conference rooms and that kind of stuff. And I was like, Oh, this is great. This is interesting to see this happening. And we need these experiments, let’s say right, like, we need companies to kind of come back together. And then you know, then see if if something goes wrong. And you know, COVID does spread throughout because they messed up or something. Yeah. Are you seeing anything in? So in Paris, you guys have a tremendous amount of old buildings like, what are they doing with like the HV AC and things like that any trends that you see, like to help with the virus and that way? Is it? Is it a mystery? No.