Greg Owens 15:51
They’re doing like working with chemicals at a desk space, they might have a hood there, and stout
Christian Grzywinski 15:59
will often call that point, point of use, you know, so we have got, you know, point point of view. So, it’d be a snorkel, you know, right there, if they’re working on building new batteries or something like that, and they’re, you know, welding something or soldering something crazy, or, you know, or even some of the machines just, they’re what they exhaust, you know, to function may not be, even though if it’s in small amounts, you still want to try to grab that and take that immediately from the machine. So it’s not being mixed with,
Greg Owens 16:28
yeah, my friend had a torch, her tool remaking facility in an old building in San Francisco, and she had to have these little pods, ventilation pods at point of views that moved around from like, one station to another station as it went through its process, right? I mean, you see it, I see it all the time these days. I mean, when I was a kid, you know, they’d never had it. But now all the automotive facilities have it in a big way, for each and every car, or at that point where they’re doing that work, they can have that being just sucked right out of the building, which is so great. Yeah. What’s it what’s, like, been, like, some interesting project that you’ve done this year or before this year?
Christian Grzywinski 17:08
Hmm. I mean, that’s the fun thing about it is that, you know, they really are kind of can all be interesting in their own way. But, you know, I guess, you know, a lot of the things I don’t know, because of MBAs
Christian Grzywinski 17:22
and things like that, too, not sure why you done to mention the code, bases,
Christian Grzywinski 17:26
you know, things like that. But it I guess, for me the exciting part, right, because we are designed build, you know, it’s just the process of when, you know, there’s nothing, there’s no drawings, there’s really just an idea, you know, it’s like, we want to get this into a space, you know, we want to bring these machines and these users in here, and, and, you know, for us, because we try to take on the, you know, some companies maybe just to the airside or the process, or just the plumbing, and we really try to, you know, approach it, you know, from the entire mechanical perspective, and it’s, you know, maybe it’s multiple engineers, multiple foreman people getting on site, you know, finding our tie in points, you know, where we’re going to get the equipment, getting a crane contractor out there, how are we going to get this on the roof, and, and just watching this, you know, entire process, and then all of a sudden, you know, a couple months down the road, it’s, it’s done, and you have, you know, piping all over the place, and big machines and duck, and, you know, it just started from a conversation. And, and it’s, I think that’s the the real fun part is that, you know, a lot of thing, you know, software that maybe does it never, in a sense, materializes, you know, it is on screen forever. And I guess that’s the fun part about this industry. You know, we kind of talked about it earlier, the alternate career paths, I don’t know if we were recording at that time, but you know, just the fact that there’s, there’s really exciting jobs out there, and you know, myself, my job being one of them, where, you know, the job itself is rewarding and satisfying, because you really are providing a visual solution, something that you can touch and feel and hear and see. And it’s Didn’t you know, it came from nothing, it came from a conversation. And so I think that’s the fun part is really just the the process.
Greg Owens 19:09
Yeah, let’s be speak more to that, because I love getting that kind of information out to people about the different career paths. How, like, how you got into this and what you find, I mean, you just mentioned what you find rewarding about it, but like, you know, what it is that you’ve seen and how you got into this industry?
Christian Grzywinski 19:26
Yeah, I mean, you know, my, I’m not an engineer or a field personnel here, that’s kind of some of the more typical entries, right in the project management, it’s it right, because to get to this point, where I’m at now, you know, obviously, the first part is just exposure, right? I mean, there’s no HVC classes in high school, or, you know, there’s no plumbing and so, you know, the first part is just how to get exposed to these fields and to these industries, and just to realize, you know, that, that there’s this whole world out there, you know, so one of the best ways You know, a lot of people you know, everyone assumes colleges Way to go. But you know, Therma is a is a union company, all of our tradesmen are from local unions and, you know, that’s a five year program change you and makes you equipped to do things that very few people have the ability to do and you’re left with the skill set, that’s really impressive. And, you know, people can sometimes, you know, ride that out, and then kind of climb the field world and go from, you know, journeyman to foreman to general foreman to a superintendent, and they can climb that or, you know, at a certain point, people might want to see if they have, you know, kind of customer relations, and some people transition out of the field into a project management role. I mean, another way right is to get exposed by designing where you know, you’re coming, you get a mechanical engineering degree, and you’re just starting very small, simple projects. And once you’ve designed a few, you get exposed to bare ones, and then eventually design a lot of big ones. And then you might same thing feel comfortable moving out of the engineering role into the kind of sales project management role I started, so no, kind of a third path, you know, I kind of fell into estimating. And that’s a good way to, you know, just looking at a plans without really having a, you know, necessarily a complete grasp of systems as a whole, but just counting fittings and counting pipe. And for me that was it, measuring stuff, and just asking questions like, well, what am I counting? What is this? What am I measuring? What are these things, and over time, you know, just after years and years of constant exposure, you know, at a certain point, you know, if you have the aptitude, he said, it just starts to gel together, and you start to understand, at a certain point has to transition from exposure to realizing how systems function as a whole man to the point where you can really provide a solution where you can say, you know, what, this is what you guys need, there’s a few ways we can get there. But these are the approaches and no, and and I think it’s building up that just comfortability with systems to the point where you feel comfortable actually making propositions to, to the customer, right. And so I’m sure it took a lot of painting to be at to the point where you could actually price something up and tell a customer, this is what you need, this is how long it’s going to take. These are the issues I see, you know, based on my prior experiences, these are some pitfalls we might want to avoid. And then it just, you know, just like I said, kind of that transition from exposure to comprehension. And that just takes time. I like that exposure to comprehension. And it’s so so well
Greg Owens 22:32
said, it’s so true, because I’m one of those people that came, I wasn’t good at school, and I dropped out at 16. And I painted, right. And so I painted for a good chunk a big bunch of years myself, I came up the ladder that way, right. And so I really know, the field and I know painting, but I hired salespeople though or estimators that have that come from completely different field. And it takes time for them to develop the vocabulary. Because I can just look at something and be like, Oh, that’s gonna take five hours, because I done that before, right? But I have to actually like, spend some time and measure and learn about it all. But you know, within a year or two, they’re their vocabulary, and their competency goes skyrocketing in that process. And how did you find this company in this industry? And what did you come from?
Christian Grzywinski 23:22
So I was, you know, I guess, a little personal. I was a rhetoric major at Berkeley. And so, you know, I thought I was going to go into the advertising world, but I graduated in Oh, nine Oh, 10. When mostly, I think careers one at minimum, one year of experience. So a lot of college grads of that time are kind of in this catch 22 that if all jobs require minimum one year of experience, how do you get that initially, and so I just had a, you know, I was tutoring kids and had a, you know, Dad of one of the kids own a construction company and just fell into estimating. It wasn’t mechanical, but, you know, that just kind of one thing led to another. And, you know, kind of, like you mentioned, there’s the tool, there’s the hard skills and the soft skills, you can say, you know, we’re learning how to estimate is a skill, right? And to do that, in the different fields still translates to estimating, but you have to learn those widgets, and it’s just different widgets, but you know, kind of learning the vocabulary as you learn the skills over time and, you know, that kind of starts building and growing and, you know, and I guess not being I think sometimes it’s the the blessing of not being you know, from the field per se, is that, you know, I’m not tied to one trade. You know, if a lot of times if a guy comes up as a plumber, they only want to manage plumbing projects, you know, whereas since I didn’t come up as a plumber, to me, it doesn’t matter if it’s, you know, HVC plumbing process because I’m looking at things more from cost control, our control, material control, you know, kind of steering from the the back of the bus, not the front, and so For me it you know, it doesn’t matter too much, you know, obviously, I need to be versed enough. And I think that’s what’s nice about working for a company like Therma is that, you know, lack of field experiences isn’t what’s, you know, the difference maker at the project, right? We have tons of that, you know, and some having more field experience isn’t bringing anything to the table that the company doesn’t already have, or me being engineering experience isn’t adding anything that the company doesn’t already have, you know, and so allows me really to focus on that customer side of things, you know, managing time and budget, and allowing, you know, the people that are the experts to, I think that’s Thurman’s really strong points, that they’ve created a system that allows everyone to stay in their lanes, but be very respectful of people in the other lanes and realizing that, you know, there is no isn’t an adversarial relationship between the field and the office, you know, that we’re in this together. And I think Therma really Foster’s that kind of shit, where you know, the better job the field guys do, the easier it is for the customer to give me more work. And so, you know, the better they do, the easier it is for me to do my job, which gets them more work, which keeps them busier. And, you know, the circle just keeps going. And you know, and I don’t have to know, all the field answers or all the engineering answers, you know, I have a team and I can defer and rely on them. And, and so I think that’s really important is to know that you don’t need to have all the answers sometimes, but knowing who to get them from is very important. knowing who to get them. No, I
Greg Owens 26:30
say I talk I preach that to my sales people too. Right? Like it doesn’t, that’s not as important as connecting to the customer and really listening to what their needs are, and then designing or building out a proposal that’s meeting their needs. Right? And that’s something that, you know, that takes that’s a communication skill, not necessarily a craft skill. Yeah, right. The craft, we can add those pieces in and you can talk to somebody that’s got the knowledge about the craft, or the product, right, you can say, Hey, I don’t know what kind of actually I’m not sure what kind of flooring material we’re going to use for your industrial plant here that you pour acid on. Right? Yeah. But I’ll find out and we’ll put it together. And I’ll give you some options. Right, and, and then going to the people that have those answers, right? I’m curious, I’m about at times being a project manager, do you run into difficulties with the office? And like, where like you’re trying to get things scheduled or narrow? Like, wait a minute, you’re putting things ahead? Or is there any, because sometimes that happens within my own company where there’s like, you know, sales is out there trying to develop sales and projects and get them in. And then office is trying to put those together and get them to the painters to do and schedule and that kind of stuff. And there’s sometimes some challenges there. I’m curious if that happens within a company like Therma?
Christian Grzywinski 27:55
Well, you know, I mean, one thing I, you know, have, you know, often say is, right, like, are we don’t stock technicians and balancers, right, these people are they don’t just sit on a shelf. And so you know, that’s just one of the things is my job is to remind customers, like, you know, we, you know, advance notice is helpful. I mean, obviously, you know, we try to respond to emergencies, and we try to make ourselves as available as possible. But, you know, there are only so many guys that can do a certain thing. And so part of that is me not being over aggressive to communicate with the office, before I make this promise, you know, is this something I’m actually in a position to make? You know, because no, it’s true, right? There’s only so many administrative staff, and we only have so many engineers, right. And that’s the things like, you know, not everything is boilerplate or cookie cutter, you know, and so these drawings take time to produce, you know, someone actually has to physically get in there with AutoCAD or Revit, or whatever software they’re using and build these things, you know, and so, you know, it’s I think, for me, it’s, you know, the burdens on me, right? I mean, kind of, as the title says, right, like, I’m running the show, and then if there’s a schedule issue, then, you know, I need to be aware of that. No, but you know, it does happen right to overcommit your resources, and, right, but we do run into that, but I guess that’s the benefit of being part of a larger organization is that, you know, a lot of times you can, if you keep pressing and you know, a guy will appear, we can usually find a solution, you know, I mean, obviously, the extent of the miracle can only go so far, but I feel like, you know, with more guys and more people, the ability to kind of make the impossible happen gets a little easier.
Greg Owens 29:36
Yeah, yeah, I know, as the owner of McCarthy painting, like I things get punted to me sometimes to see if I can get more resources, right. Yep. Like, maybe I can call Johnny and Johnny will come back to work from his vacation early, right.
Christian Grzywinski 29:53
You can get him to change his playing player.
Greg Owens 29:55
Yeah, sometimes I can like Yeah, sometimes I have a little more influence in that way. Yeah, for sure, for sure. And, you know, like, so I think that’s great. You gave some really good ideas for somebody that’s possibly looking at this as a career path. Right. So there’s some definitely different directions you can take to to get into hpac. And get into any company, really, there’s like these different paths to get in there is everywhere.
Christian Grzywinski 30:23
You know, that’s the thing. I like it. Yeah, everywhere, there’s there may not be software hubs everywhere, but everywhere has buildings, you know, and so it’s a skill that is useful in every state, every city, you know, and so it’s, it’s, it’s something that’s never go out of style, I guess. Right. But I’m also uncomfortable.
Greg Owens 30:43
Yeah. And I think for you, and, and for me, for sure, right. Like, I, I watch these, I’m wearing companies, like if I’ve walked through Google or somebody like that, and I’m what I watched people like just working away in their teams and working on a program, right, and maybe there’s like, 7080 100 people working on Chrome, and then all those little pieces come together to make Chrome Chrome, right? That is mind boggling to me that you stay in front of that computer. And they do that, right, I could never really do that. But this ability to like go out to a project and walk through a project and have that conversation initially, like you talked about earlier, and then watching all the steps, you know, and being involved in like, the behind the scenes, like the guts of the building, or on top of the building, where the general public never gets to go is a is a super fun aspect of this for me, I know. And it sounds like you have some of that same feelings when you’re on.
Christian Grzywinski 31:42
And I think it’s just, you know, just the different types, you know, you know, cuz there’s guys that are service technicians. And that’s a different type of personality than someone who’s, you know, maybe just a pipe fitter, and wants to be on the same project, you know, doing the same thing for maybe a couple years, depending on how big the project is. And so, you know, there’s different personalities, even within the trades, some people want a balancers, you know, and that takes a very, very, you know, exact thing kind of mind to make sure air flows are precise. And so you guys are hard to talk to, you know, it’s definitely not an alternative to someone that doesn’t like math, or I mean, you know, there’s a lot of guys, you know, have to draw on and geometry and you know, and so, not any less engaging of the mind, I would just say it’s more engaging of the body, and no, and so,
Greg Owens 32:31
yeah, no, no, for sure. It just takes different individuals, right. Like, yeah, and I know that we’ve tried to, like groom, a painter to become more and more of a project manager, and then they’ve said to me, no, no, I want to go back to, I just want to, I just want to stay focused, work hard, get these, you know, all these projects done, and don’t want to take on that new level of responsibility and actually have to talk to people on a regular basis, right.
Christian Grzywinski 32:59
But even nailing that is sometimes goes further with the customer, then, you know, any spiel or speech or you know, and so that’s why I try to remind the guys though, that they really are just as much part of the customer service as I am, you know, by doing good work by being responsive, you know, and they’re that first face, sometimes I might not be on site, and you know, the customers may be seeing the service technician, more than me, and so, you know, their attitude, the way they carry themselves, you know, the relationships that they build with the customers is often more integral to a good relationship than mine.
Greg Owens 33:31
So, oh, yeah, my painters, like, especially within the residential side, because they get kicked all the time. Right. So they, they’re, they’re on top of that.
Christian Grzywinski 33:40
Imagine,
Greg Owens 33:41
I’m like, Oh, I see we painted the dog house, the same color as the house that really nice. Right, any any last thoughts for somebody that might be exploring this as an industry to get into into the plumbing into AC and that kind of thing,
Christian Grzywinski 34:03
um, you know, like, just to, you know, consider it to look at the different aspects that, you know, there’s the field, the office, the design side, you know, and so, you know, there’s just, there’s a lot of entry points and stuff, it’s a booming industry, you know, and it’s just, you know, if if someone’s looking for a good industry, a valuable skill set that you know, not a lot of people have, and so, you know, for long term jobs already, you know, it’s just it’s, you know, construction, just something that I don’t think a lot of people in this area consider because they see all the tech industry signs and I think that people assume that’s the only way to have a, you know, comfortable life in the Bay Area. But, you know, the construction industry and mechanical in particular is something that I would, you know, just recommend to people really looking into and considering in their long term plans, and theirs
Greg Owens 34:52
and especially your industry, not necessarily mine painting doesn’t have any technology really, but your industry is crazy filled with knowledge you I use all these different programs and constantly changing up what technology check the environment that we’re building. And there’s so much depth, it’s so great. I yeah, and this has been wonderful chatting with you about this. How can people find you? What’s the best way people can find you? Is LinkedIn a good? Yeah,
Christian Grzywinski 35:20
I’m on LinkedIn, Christian Grzywinski through Therma. And, you know, our Therma website has a lot of kind of resources and stuff, but you know, first name dot last name@therma.com, you know, any, especially anyone in any, you know, people interested in the Emeryville or you know, Oakland, Berkeley, that area, feel free to reach out and anyone that happens to be listening that’s interested in maybe getting into the industry, you know, hopefully, we’ll be ramping up, you know, intern operations and kind of that sort of stuff, when things start to return to normal, so
Greg Owens 35:56
high, and I can imagine, like, with my company, there’s nobody starts less than, like, $18 an hour, I would think that’s probably even more within hpac like, we’re talking art, with no skills whatsoever. I mean, talk they’re talking about a minimum wage of 15 I’m like, I haven’t paid $15 an hour for somebody for an intern or a helper in ya
Christian Grzywinski 36:18
know, the I mean, the the trades are their own their own. And, you know, we don’t we don’t determine those a union set those but I said, we, you know, the unions is a great program. And you know, for someone looking to it’s not an easy trajectory, but it’s one that you’ll be way ahead of your peers if you’re a young person getting started in the trades early. And so it’s you get the effort that the dividends for the effort you put in are very big, so that’s all right. Absolutely. This has been the watching paint dry podcast. Great to have you on the program. Christian, stay in touch. It’s
Katrina Stevens 36:54
really good. Good to see the training, Greg.
Greg Owens 36:56
Thanks, Katrina to hear that.
Outro 37:10
Thanks for listening to the Watching Paint Dry podcast. We’ll see you again next time and be sure to click subscribe to get future episodes.