Right, right, because as you mentioned, me we still we still don’t know, there’s still so much that we don’t know about what the future looks like. Right? You know, and there’s been these great opportunities even for us as a painting company where like normally we would have to go in and get a project done in one weekend at night, work a lot hours, overtime and all of that and we’ve been able to go in and just like okay, we’re just gonna paint you know, this whole system. It during the week and with normal daylight and not have to deal with all those other constraints that we’ve had to think about, which has been really, you know, there’s been some definitely blessings, we’ve also we’ve done some painting for companies where they’re closing down, they’re no longer going to use that facility, but they have to hand it back to the landlord, and, you know, and give it back to them, you know, as good or better than they found it kind of things. Right?
Joe Peterson 15:21
Yeah, yeah, that’s a real thing. And the lease terms are a big part of it. And, you know, restoration clause and putting things back together. And we a lot of our offices are, you know, msos, right, where they’re a managed service, like a we work or sandbox, because a lot of our spaces are still relatively small from a headcount perspective. So there’s only so many locations where we’re, you know, physically managing the space and looking at expansion, looking at the future. And like I said, most of the projects were already well underway. Yeah, we tend to wrap them up. And then some restrictions came through and said, you know, we got to stop them. So we stopped, we followed the letter of the law to a tee. And we’ve been very transparent with our employees about their safety. And you know, some regions, the number of cases are so low, they’re at a tier one, other places, or tier five, purple, right. And so even still, we’re not opening, we want to make sure that it’s safe to do so the last thing we want to do is have people come back to work, if one person gets sick, somebody that wasn’t paying attention, or just randomly got it, and then we have to shut the office back down again. And we just don’t want to that’s really disruptive from a business standpoint, and we’ve been very successful people meeting their objectives and their goals from working from home and, you know, wall, you know, a lot of people are itching to get back into the office, I think when they do return, and things are gonna be a little different, you know, even psychologically, I think you’re gonna see a lot of changes with people, some people don’t feel comfortable. Some people do, just like the vaccine, some people want it, some people don’t. And, you know, in this day and age, everyone has a right to their opinion, and what they feel and what they believe. And so we’re trying really hard to find the positives in this and use it as a springboard and an opportunity to focus on the workplace of the future and what the needs of our employees and our customers are going to be try to anticipate those and use this time to do a lot of situational planning and strategic planning and coming up with some ideas for tactical execution.
Greg Owens 16:55
Yeah, no, we’re doing very similar things on a much smaller scale, because I get the same like a COVID outbreak in our company would be devastating, you know, we’re just not that big. And so we’ve definitely had to do a lot of those kinds of things of like, Okay, how do we approach a project? And how do we keep in mind doing everything to the letter of the law or going above and beyond and really keeping our people safe? I really want to touch on this, because you guys are a global organization, what have you seen that’s, like drastically different out there in different regions? Whether or not it’s the US or you actually over overseas and other countries, too.
Joe Peterson 17:29
We’re global, we’re all over the place. I mean, specifically, what do you mean, changes, you know, physical changes are,
Greg Owens 17:35
are no differences in how differences in approach and that kind of thing, because I know, parts of like, Taiwan, my friends in Taiwan are back to pretty much living their lives in a normal way. And the same with some of my friends in Shanghai. Right. And so I see those kinds of things. And I’m like, Wow, that’s really that’s really awesome. That thing, so under control, right. And then, of course, you know, we’re here in the Bay area where things are definitely not that way. And we’re locked down a lot more. We can’t go to a restaurant eat right now.
Joe Peterson 18:03
Yeah, yeah. I mean, we’ve,
you pretty much just hit the nail on the head. You know, as I said a little bit earlier, I think every city, every county, they’re all doing it different. And, you know, I can’t say that we’ve seen any changes that other people haven’t seen, you know, the it’s all over the news, right? Like they’re the restaurants are closed, small businesses are struggling, you know, traffic is freed up or, you know, the it’s a buyers market from a housing standpoint, or it’s a seller’s market, it depends on who you ask, right? I mean, right now, houses are selling like crazy, a lot of people are moving out of the city and moving out to the woods in the outskirts. And, you know, I personally think it’s a seller’s market, it’s not necessarily a buyers market, because everything’s selling above asking price. And but people are spending the money moving. And, you know, a lot of the tech companies and we haven’t made this statement, but a lot of other companies have made public statements saying you don’t have to come back to the office, you can work from home. And definitely I don’t I I haven’t really bought into that. Personally, I think there’s a time and a place for being in the office. But I do think that you know, the office being a playground, and I use that term lightly. There’s been a lot of sociological studies and psychological evaluations that have been done over the years around, you know, what makes people creative and what’s makes people work. And I have a lot of friends that are engineers that spent hours and hours and hours writing code, and you know, thinking, thinking, thinking, looking for this one solution, and they’re out or their thing that gives them their creative freedom is maybe playing ping pong, or taking a nap or riding a bike or bouncing on a ball or whatever, you know that that’s the changes that I’ve seen. And I’ve seen those changes from it’s kind of come full circle, you know, I’ve seen I remember the days of cubicles and vending machines for 25 cent chicken soup and terrible hot chocolate and terrible coffee. But that was it. You brought your lunch in a paper bag and you put your headphones on and you did your job all the way to, you know, the Googles of the world and the Facebook’s of the world with you know, gourmet chefs on site and, you know, massage therapists and all these other things, and you know, and now everyone’s working from home, right so it’s if you don’t have your own massage therapist or your own sushi chef, you’re maybe you’re falling upon hard times, you know, and to me, it’s always been a little bit preposterous. I think that I remember my first job was a janitor in a butcher shop. You know, I made five bucks an hour, there was no free lunch, you know, like, there was no sense sensitivity training and diversity and inclusion. And you know, you shut up and you did your job and you took it right. And I, whether I had an internal problem with that or not irrelevant, you know, I liked the diversity and inclusion, I liked the training, I liked the understanding that everyone has a right to their opinion, and everyone has a right to feel how they feel. And you know, within the constraints of the system, obviously, and the main changes, and the main things that we’ve seen have really been around, you know, nothing was too out of the ordinary for an ask in the Silicon Valley. I mean, people, people have a lot of toys at work. And unfortunately, I’d have to say, you know, snowflake has a very good culture, we’re not, you know, we’re not we’re not the size of some of those other companies, right? We don’t have all the crazy luxuries, you know, we we do waffle Wednesdays, or we do we do, you know, small things culturally that have been around since the beginning of the company that, you know, they don’t cost a normal life, they are responsible, right, there’s something that we’re we’re doing to, you know, keep people talking and collaborating on a large scale. And then COVID came holding it shut down. And so so now, there’s been a lot of virtual meetings and virtual Hangouts. And I think those are the changes that I’ve seen the most is online cooking classes, and magic shows, and all these different things. We people pitch all the time, you know, these are things you could do for your employees and holiday parties, and virtual birthday parties and all of the different things, it’s really changed. And I honestly feel that, you know, as we returned to work all the days pre pandemic or in the past, and I don’t think the office will ever look like it looked before I don’t think people are going to forget about this, you know, that people say, you know, Americans have short memories and people have short memories. I disagree. I think some people do, people are gonna remember for a long time what it felt like right and the kind of the fear and the uncertainty and so we’re trying very hard to create spaces in anticipation of different people’s needs when they return and you know, the one to one desking ratio with everyone sitting side by side, it’s that’s not going to happen for a long time. Like I said, buffets and cafes, I don’t think you’re gonna see that for a long time either if ever, I’m I kind of chuckle because there’s a buffet brand out there, keep them quiet and to myself, but I always joke about that chocolate fountain, you know, and you see the kids just sticking their hands in the chocolate fountain you know, I don’t know when the last time they changed that chocolate was so some of this buffet stuff for me is a blessing. I’m kind of glad to see it gone. And and as a chef and as a professional in food service to you know, I spent a lot of time in my past sourcing products and writing recipes and creating this beautiful dish and you put it in the window and someone comes with a spoon and just fills up a box and walks out. And it just I find it somewhat disrespectful. So in this particular case, you know, do when people order their food, and some companies have free food, some companies pay for their food. And you know, there’s a level of accountability that pre ordering and ordering in advance requires just like you would if you’re at home and you’re ordering on doordash, you know, you’re not ordering everything under the sun, you’re picking a meal, or you’re picking what you need for your for your food service. And you know, the whole goal is to sustain productivity and performance for the company, right? You a lot of the places pre pandemic, the traffic’s crazy. So you have 30 minutes for lunch, you may not even have a restaurant close by, you may not be able to go and park and get your food and get back in your in your 30 minutes or your hour. So I think that’s why you saw a lot of tech companies shift towards on site services. And there’s a lot of things that come with that. But the dangers have absolutely nothing to give them the world to back to kind of ground zero, we interesting to see what the future holds. Yeah, you know, I
Greg Owens 23:04
see, I think you’re right on a lot of those points, I was just talking having this conversation with some other friends, entrepreneurs, and we were talking about, it’s not going to be like a day, that is like a Victory Day for this. And maybe they’ll have a Victory Day, you know, five years from now or something like that. Because this will be a slow gradual sort of easing up on both restrictions and people’s own personal feelings about whether or not they’re going to continue wearing a mask do they go into the office or not, and that kind of thing. And there’s a lot of great studies. And I truly believe this from my own cleaning company even is like employees really like to have autonomy, they don’t really want somebody watching over their shoulder all day long. They want to do their best work on their own right and getting out but they also want some coaching and some help and they and some definitely want to come in and collaborate and be in the office. I know Katrina here was one of the ones that like said, Hey, I want to come into the office to work is this working at home is not.
Katrina Stevenson 23:59
I’m just not productive at home. I’m running around, I need to be in office.
Joe Peterson 24:04
And I think that I think that’s a general opinion. Everybody feels a little different. I have friends that have multiple kids and dogs a lot of people in their house, they’re like get me out of here. I want the office
who truly love their home, right? And they they like working from home or even more so people that have you know, the ability to connect to the internet from outdoors that live in good climate that are like I’ve been working from the park it’s like the most tranquil thing so I really think there’s some some opportunity there and changing your lens. And you know, again, I go back to the fact that hey, we’re still alive. We’re still healthy. We still have jobs, right? I know. I know people that can’t say yes to any of those God rest their soul, right. And there’s something there to be said for, you know, what did you go to work for? And that’s what I meant by some of the Disneyland type offices I always struggled with. And I think for me, I struggled with it because I was always facilities and workplace and operations right? We didn’t we never played ping pong we have time. You know, we didn’t take the hour and a half lunch breaks or stand in line for the coffee bar or do any of this stuff in my past job. We didn’t have time. We were the linemen on the football team, you know, we’re not getting interviews after that after the game,
Greg Owens 25:04
or or have like an open bar like Airbnb does every Yeah,
Joe Peterson 25:07
I mean, you know, and I certainly, yeah, everybody has a different you know, and, and so I’m not here to judge your sound, I’m speaking from my own opinion. And my opinion for me is, you know, I don’t go to work to hang out, I go to work to get my job done so I can make money to go live my life with my family, you know, that’s the point for me. And it doesn’t mean you can’t have a good time at work. It doesn’t mean you can’t, you know, have some social moments and you can’t have some collaborative time with your, with your colleagues. And you know, but the whole notion that, you know, this is my office, my home office at work, I want to walk around with my shoes off, and you’d be able to take naps whenever I want and get three meals a day, I find it preposterous. I really do. I’ve never really agreed with that. And I as someone who ran food service, I can tell you this, you know, the point was sustained productivity nourishment, right? Like, what do you mean, and I never thought it should go to the level of anything you wouldn’t provide for yourself at home right? Now, I’m not saying that everyone has the ability to cook like these amazing chefs do at home. There’s no way but there’s a lot of different companies, now you can get anything delivered to your door. You know, I’ve heard people say, if it’s not on Amazon, it doesn’t exist. And doordash doesn’t deliver it, I don’t want it and all these other things. But at the end of the day, the office should be a place to conduct business and get your stuff done. And I honestly think that post pandemic with the the acceleration of some of the industry changes that were forced the pandemic, we people have proven that they can work remotely, right. So I think fundamentally, that that changes the real estate footprint in the future, I think it changes the expectation of how often people come in, and when they come in, how long they stay and what they’re really there for. And I think we’re seeing the pendulum kind of swinging back the other direction towards you know, the cubicles are a thing of the past, right, you know, the one to one desking ratios. And frankly, one of the things we were talking about earlier was you know, tools and technology. And you know, there’s a lot of sensors now they’re agnostic, right, they’re anonymous centers, I don’t know who’s there, I just know that someone’s there. So I can tell you that if there’s 400 people at XYZ location, you know, pre pandemic, I’m guessing here, but the pandemic 250 of them came in every day, right. And you know, to know those numbers. And that’s not the case. It’s not like I don’t have any of the data from from snowflake, pretend demmick. But I will share that I worked in other locations where our utilization on a daily basis was in the 70 70%. Right. And so when we think about the core footage, and you think about the cost of the organization to provide these spaces that aren’t being used all the time, there has to be a better way, there has to be a more efficient way. And that’s better for the planet, it’s better for the economy, it’s better for the employee that they you know, they have a space that they’re using when they need it. And I think you’ll see those changes with technology and some of the stuff in the future of you know, people being able to if you think about how you book your your flights now or you call Uber, right, I don’t think that’s going to be any different than Hey, I’m going to be in the office on Tuesday, Thursday, Friday, next week, and Monday, Wednesday, Thursday, the following week, I’m gonna need a desk while I’m there, and frankly, only going to be there from 10 to four, I have meetings in the morning and meetings in the evening. Having that information flow through technology and being able to help the workplace team, the facilities plan for that plan for the cleaning plan for the desktop to plan for you know, some people need a desk nine to five, Monday through Friday and pray, people may never need a desk again, right? The more information we can get about that the better workplace, we’re going to go.
Greg Owens 28:03
Yeah, no, and that’s great, I’d love to touch into some of those kinds of tools. Because like, I know, like one company we work for, they were doing a study with using some of the technology tools is how many conference rooms they actually need, right, because they built all these conference rooms based on what they thought they needed. But actually how many are being utilized on a regular basis and utilize to the maximum possibility that can be utilized to right because then they
Joe Peterson 28:27
want not just the number of rooms, right the size of the room, the number of seats in the room, the audio visual capabilities of the room, you know, and one of the things that I think is missing in the on the technology front, too, is when you send a calendar invite to say eight people, they say yes or no, there isn’t an option for Yes, in person or Yes, virtually. And so if the system was a smarter system, and I had reserved a 12 person conference room, when I sent this invite out, and it looks like only four people are going to be in person for the system to be able to automatically shift that into a smaller room freeing up the larger room for someone else or, you know, flexible rooms in general, I think it’s the conference room utilization. And frankly, different organizations and different business units need space different, right? Like some groups need a space for 30 engineers to get in the room and collaborate on different whiteboard, right? without going too far down the rabbit hole, you know, you write all that stuff on the whiteboard, someone has to take a picture and erase the whiteboard, right? What if it’s a digital whiteboard, and that can be an image that’s sent to a computer somewhere so you can pick up where you left off last time, you’re seeing a lot of that now, these are more efficient workspace and more efficient tools and technology. And the conference room in particular is one that it’s always seems to be a sore spot, right? Like, there’s never enough rooms that are too small or I’ve never really heard anybody say these rooms are too big, but you know how and what they’re using them for. And you know, just a smarter system in general. It’s kind of like when you’re driving late at night or early in the morning to head somewhere and you come to that red light and it’s green the other direction and there’s no cars coming and you’re just sitting there like am I the only one that sees this like this is the longest like ever a smarter system means you’re moving right on through so I we’re starting to see a lot of those changes and being a part of that the tech industry and seeing how that’s coming to fruition is really exciting and it’s helped Build smarter big buildings and you know, reducing some of the impact I personally feel on the planet, you know, all the cars on the road everyday burning fuel. It’s not okay. And
Greg Owens 30:09
so this is a wasting two hours of your life driving to work. Yeah, yeah,
Joe Peterson 30:13
there’s a lot of that’s why I meant about you got to try to find the positives in the midst of the fire, right? There’s a lot going on. And there’s a lot of bad things. But at the end of the day, there’s some lessons to be learned here. And there’s some opportunities to reset. I heard a Buddy call it the old MS DOS users remember the old Control, Alt Delete, right, the hard restart? And I think the pandemic kind of forced that.
Greg Owens 30:32
Yeah, like that. Any other tools that you come across? Or gadgets or things like that? helping your your industry? Your Yeah,
Joe Peterson 30:39
yeah, absolutely. I
still think that the number one is crowdsourcing, right? As I mentioned before, it’s not talking to the whole crowd, you’re gonna be careful what you wish for. Right? It’s, it’s talking to the right people, and you know, really having some good insights into the discovery process. So if you know what these teams need to be successful, there’s a lot of AWS systems, which are, which are workplace management solutions and systems that are kind of doing that building the smarter office tying in sensor technology, utilization, and building, you know, workplace specific applications where the end user, all their answers to what they need is on what happened on whether it’s ordering food or filing a ticket for something that’s broken, reserving a desk picking a parking spot, whatever the case may be, there’s a lot of technology out there that doing that a lot of business management systems, excuse me, building management systems that are really helping make smarter buildings that are more efficient, that use less energy, yes, more or less waste. So you know, the technology piece is, is really exciting for me and facilities and workplace in general, and that you’re not wasting, right, you’re not wasting nearly as much. And although they’re never going to be perfect. There’s a lot of sustainable building practices now. And there’s a lot of tools out there to help build a smarter and a better office, not just for the end user or for the business owner, but for the planet and for the world. And I really think that out of this, we’re going to hopefully we’re paying attention, we’re going to learn a lot of things and you know, end up having better and more efficient offices. And you know, one thing that relates back in your world to is that, you know, when you’re when you’re looking at spaces being open collaborative spaces, and not just one to one desk and ratios, thinking about how different teams would use the space when they’re in the space. Yeah, it means that there’s some remodeling in some retrofitting that needs to take place. And you know, after you’re all done with moving stuff around, you got to paint it right, and colors and textures. And that changes is really something that makes the place feel fresh and new. And so you know, one thing that I’m excited about is there’s a lot of things that have happened in a lot of offices, where my friends and other colleagues and other companies that they’ve done a lot of work during the shutdown, and a lot of it was remote. But a lot of these projects that could be completed were completed, and people are walking back into different spaces. And it’d be interesting to see how they respond to them.
Greg Owens 32:40
Yeah, yeah, no, I’m any kind of movement inside corporations and companies is really good for painting. Because it’s like the thing they need to do to sort of clean it all up and make it different, you know, when they move teams around, whatever it is right there. It’s a great opportunity for us. You talked about the crowdsourcing, can you give me an example? You know, maybe not the specific details, but how you personally, I’ve used crowdsourcing because,
Joe Peterson 33:02
yeah, absolutely, um, you know, we were talking about the way some of the office setups are right, you know, everyone had a desk and everyone had a monitor, and everyone had a chair. And that was just kind of the norm and talking to the team leaders and going back and saying, Listen, you know, you’ve been you’ve been meeting with your teams, people have been working remotely for almost a year, you know, what percentage? Do you actually expect to return to the office? Have you asked those questions? If you send any surveys? What what’s your stance on people coming back to work? And what what are the requirements, right? Because we have not said, you can work from home forever, we have not said those words. And I don’t expect will ever hear those words. But I do expect that the schedules will change in the future, and the workplace will be a space for people to come in for a reason to get stuff done. So having said that, talking to the different business leaders to understand what they’re hearing on the ground level from their teams, what percentage of their people are planning on moving, if that’s an option, what percentage are saying I don’t want to have to commute five days a week anymore, I’ll take the training come in three days a week. And frankly, you know, being at home means we don’t have a nanny. And so my kids don’t go to school till 10. And they get out at three. So I’ll come in tend to three, and I’ll take my meetings from home in the morning in the evening like that information is powerful, and asking the right people that are there asking the right questions, and compiling the data and using it to build a plan to create a space that works for everybody. That’s one example of the crowdsourcing piece. And the other was simply, you know, as simple as asking people, hey, you know, we’re changing to a smaller amount of people in the office, if that’s the case, we’re not going to have all the things that we had before what are the most important things to you, you know, what, what time do you generally get in? And what time do you generally plan on leaving? And you know, was this working? Was it not? What would you change? If you could? I mean, that’s something that I’ve asked a lot. And I’ve tried to get feedback from people to understand what do they really need to be successful and productive? Some people don’t need an extra monitor at their desk. So why would I bring everyone an extra monitor? You know, it’s really asking the right questions, the right people and listening for the answers.
Greg Owens 34:47
Any me I know, it might be too early to tell, but any insights that you’ve gleaned from those kinds of conversations and questions you’ve been asking at this point? Yeah, I
Joe Peterson 34:56
think you know, a lot of that’s somewhat private, I guess, you know, different People have different feelings about it. What I’ve grown to understand is the five days a week general commute the nine to five, I don’t think that’s thing anymore. I don’t think people are going to be super comfortable coming into the office to just hang out makes me happy. I really don’t like it when people are just hanging out, like, if you’re coming in do something, what’s your function, right. But having said that, it doesn’t mean you can’t take a break, it doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t have an opportunity to to enjoy some time with your co workers and collaborate. I mean, that’s something we’ve all been missing. I think that that’s going to be you know, different for everyone. But most of the insights have just been that people have started to find balance. You know, having said that, there’s the opposite side of the coin, where there’s Doom fatigue, right. And, you know, people just because they’re working from home, people assume you’re always available. And I know a lot of folks that are taking earlier meetings and taking meetings later than they ever have before. And frankly, working more hours now than they did when they were commuting, right because the the commute was was a reason to, you know, they left at a certain time to avoid some traffic in the morning and in the evening. And so here’s the only hours I’m available. And then but I was often on the phone all weekend and all the way home because when I got home, I wanted to be off work and unfortunately, working in operations and programs. So you’re never really off work. But you know, it’s the insights that I’ve seen so far is that people are looking for some type of hybrid between what they had before and what they have now and their expectations for social distancing and safety and really vary throughout the spectrum, depending on personal preference and belief. Some people I see to this day still aren’t wearing masks and act like nothing ever happened. Other people are wearing masks and gloves and you’re walking down the sidewalk and they change sides of the street. I think it’s you know, it’s a new world, that’s for sure.
Greg Owens 36:30
I saw guys Only time will tell I saw a guy skiing with the three screeners. He 100 the whole. I was like now that that taken into a whole nother level,
Joe Peterson 36:41
but I mean, it is you know, I
mean, skiing is a pretty social distance sport as it is, you know, it’s not tobogganing. So everybody’s doing it a little bit different. And you know, for me, it’s just a matter of being open to people’s opinions and really understand that everyone has an opinion. And whether it’s right or wrong is up to them to decide you don’t get to tell. But our leadership team has been very supportive and very understanding about keeping our employees safe and doing what’s best for your business. And we will open when we’re cleared to do so and it’s safe. And we’ll be opening through a little bit of a different lens than we looked through
Greg Owens 37:10
before and probably doing a little bit of like, try a little bit, let a few people in see how that works. And then go from there. Right like and I know that some other companies have done some similar things where they’ve allowed back when they did open up for a little bit, they took the operations that needed to be in person and had them coming in and just seeing how the facility would be you know how it would handle people coming in? How many people in the lobby, how many people using elevator and those kinds of things?
Joe Peterson 37:34
Yep. Yep. So Only time will tell?
Greg Owens 37:37
Yeah, yeah. I think one one piece on that zoom fatigue that I just noticed. And it’s taken me like, I don’t know, nine months here to figure this out is that all my hobbies are also on zoom. And so that’s added to the to the zoom fatigue in some ways, right? So I was like involved in a martial arts seminar. And it’s you can’t do martial arts over zoom over the weekend. But you can do like Tai Chi type breathing exercises and things like that are just not the same when you’re, if you’re in a room and together and having that sort of energetic fuel, right. And so I was I was thinking about it yesterday, when I was on Sunday, when I did this. I was like, Oh, yeah, you open up your laptop, you’re staring at the same screen, and it’s new faces, but it’s more zoom time than ever. Yeah, well, this has been great. Just like any words of wisdom for somebody that’s looking at having a career in workplace in facilities management, property management, that kind of thing. What would you recommend to somebody up and coming,
Joe Peterson 38:30
I guess I would just say, you know, make sure you’re doing something that you enjoy, I enjoy working with other people enjoy helping people, but most importantly, enjoy solving problems. And that’s part of what facilities and workplaces is, it’s a lot of fire drills, and it’s a lot of whack a mole, but strategic whack a mole, right? If you whack it, make sure it doesn’t stick it set out that same hole again, no, no moles were harmed during the making of this podcast. We’re in that spot where it’s a career choice that somebody wants, I would say reach out to a mentor, use your professional media platforms and reach out to a mentor, reach out to some people in the industry that you’re interested in and ask them to get on a call or get on a zoom meeting or Skype meeting or whatever the case may be and ask them questions. You know, at the end of the day facilities has been workplaces a lot of work, but it’s very gratifying at the end of the day, because you’re building spaces and programs and events for people that are really changing their life and making them comfortable and making them more productive and helping the business and the overall company and the shareholders prosper. But that’s the bottom line. That’s why they’re in business. So
Greg Owens 39:24
right and i think that’s like, people don’t realize that these kinds of careers are out there and exist and for certain types of individuals like yourself or like me, like you’d like to go in and solve problems and every day is a new day. It’s not even the same problems over and over again, because you you tend to solve a problem put a system in take care of those problems, but then new things pop up. So sounds good. Thank you so much. Joe Peterson for getting absolutely great. I’ll let you know when it comes out. We’ll send you a copy so you guys can get it all approved and everything. wonderful to have you on our show.
Joe Peterson 39:59
Yeah, wonderful.
Outro 40:09
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