Greg Owens  29:11  

Yeah, totally. And I would think that your time in the military has helped out a lot during this pandemic, especially because like, I know, from the milk being in the military, you’re, you know, you’re having to make decisions on not all the information. Right. And, and that’s been basically this, the whole status quo of this pandemic is like, you don’t have all the answers and but you’re still having to make a bunch of decisions and you’re probably like, finding it, you’re like, able to do that quicker than some of your peers that may not have been in, in the military and doing that kind of thing.

Jonathan Johnson  29:45  

Yeah, quite possibly. I mean, I think too, it’s one of those things where I didn’t go into is any fear, right? I was just like, Okay, so this is all this is unknown, but you know, it’s, if there’s no door, we can always blow it up door, door, or whatever it may be right Hi,

Katrina Hayes  30:03  

john, I like that one.

Greg Owens  30:05  

I got I got the ability I could blow the door down.

Jonathan Johnson  30:08  

Yeah, I think that’s what it takes to be like a very suspect successful facilities person is that, you know, you have to, if there is no door and you know, that’s probably part of your problem solving thing, and then just run it I do a lot of debriefs too, right? So it’s, it’s learning from our mistakes. a feedback loop is what you know, most of America would call it but you know, in the military called a debrief after every mission, you talk about what went right, what went wrong, you know, why certain things happen the way that they did? And then that way next time, it doesn’t happen like that. Right?

Greg Owens  30:38  

Right. Yeah. And that’s something we should do in our painting company, after every paint job, I would be looking at Katrina right now. Because like a debrief of like, hey, what, what went good, what went wrong? And then what’s the process to kind of make this better, right, like, enhance what’s going good, and eliminate some of these problems and put new processes in eliminate some of the problems that we had.

Jonathan Johnson  31:00  

And it allows, like some of the junior folks to, you know, be heard, right, and sometimes I’ll think of project went magnificent, and magnificently. And they’ll be like, No, actually, you know, I had to stay up, you know, for three extra hours, because you didn’t give me this information in a timely manner. And so because I have that debrief, and I’m able to kind of, you know, go back to the ground troops and say, Hey, well, what what’s going on here? You know, I can also adjust myself and realize that sometimes when I think it’s flawless, it’s, it’s actually not right. Right. Right.

Greg Owens  31:32  

Fantastic. Yeah, that’s really good. Um, did you have a question Katrina had that look like? You,

Katrina Stevenson  31:40  

that’s, that’s the the debrief mission is, is something I wrote down, and I hope that we adopt that because I think that’s fantastic.

Greg Owens  31:47  

It’s what’s made the American military the the most powerful military force on the planet, and a lot of ways that and a lot of taxpayer money, but, but no, but that’s like them, but really, just like, the iterations of making it better, right?

Jonathan Johnson  32:02  

Yeah, as iterations and making it better, and, you know, a lot of really great training a lot, you know, and then just, I think, too, it’s one of those things where you’re not the you know, and that’s why I also advocate a lot of veteran hiring, you know, across the board to a lot of these companies out here, because even though their their skills might not directly align, you know, it’s, it’s one of those things, you’ll never find people that are that are more dedicated to the cause and more dedicated to getting better. So it’s one of those jobs that you can train somebody and I’m always trying to recommend some of these companies pick up some some veterans for sure.

Greg Owens  32:33  

Yeah, cuz, uh, yeah, because our military definitely spends a lot of money on the training, and especially the Air Force, Air Force does more than I think any of the other branches in at the enlisted level, even though

Jonathan Johnson  32:45  

Yeah, so I mean, I have, the Air Force is nice that you can actually get your community college degree from them. So I have a community college Air Force degree that’s related to my job construction technology. And so that was a big help as well. So,

Greg Owens  32:58  

right, any thoughts on so when it comes to technology, or like learnings that you’ve taken that are really good any thoughts on like, technology that you’re seeing that is growing in your industry that you’re using a lot,

Jonathan Johnson  33:10  

I think you’re I think from a silly standpoint, it’s gonna it’s gonna blossom a lot in back in the day, or even now, currently, security and facilities are unsexy. And so what happens is you get these really, like, poor, you know, systems that are, you know, it looks like computer programs from like, the 1990s, you know, when I used to play Diego on typing, and so I think it’s, I think, from, you know, a moving and kind of allocating spaces, a lot of software is going to come, you know, really far, you know, office space, and some of these other software’s that are just kind of like, where you manage these the space itself. I think that’s going to be a really big thing I would like to see more, you know, I had tried to do this before on my own with a company I had made called hyperspace where I wanted to see more software on managing kind of, like, you know, painters or general contractors being able to, but I think a lot of people don’t really, you know, it’s, it’s sometimes it’s just very, Ill managed, you know, as a general contractor running, you know, the, you know, these guys or these separate entities, can I go through them direct? What if I need painting directly? Do I need to go to the general contractor again? Or can I come to you directly? So I think, you know, because a lot of people lack those that knowledge, especially like, you know, an office manager might not know these things, I think that within that realm will become more popular, making it easier for people to make, you know, much more detailed engineering decisions that maybe like only an expert would know should not become

Greg Owens  34:45  

that’s really interesting because like we do a lot of direct work for for clients, because we’re not the ones that come in and do the like if Pandora was building a new building or something like that. We’re not the painting contractor for that, right. Like, we We let the general contractor pick the painting contractor and they run them. We’re the type that comes in and does all like the touch up. And, and when you guys want new colors or, or we do a tremendous amounts of dry erase boards in buildings. Yeah, right. And so, and then we do all kinds of things. Like we just, we just had a call yesterday and they were asking like what other services we do we get into, you know, whatever is asked in a lot of ways, right? Like, hey, we’ve got these cabinets that are, that are on these walls, and we want them removed and the walls patched and painted. You know, can you do? Can you do all of that? Right? It’s like, Yeah, but like, sometimes they don’t know who to go to. Like, I’ve noticed, like facilities managers don’t know who to go to. For some of these. We were asked, I always forget, like, we do a we do a lot of furniture. Restoring right, like conference, but not for like a homeowner, because they’re too attached to that stuff. But like, for like, big businesses would have conference tables that have wood furniture, right? Like that stuff gets damaged with everybody’s laptops and stuff. Right? And, and that needs to be and we’re like, yeah, we can totally refinish those, you know, and make it look better. And, and it would be good for you guys. I think if you had like, you just plug in like I need this done. And then it comes up with these of the vendors that could do it,

Jonathan Johnson  36:15  

basically. Right, exactly. And so yeah, I’ll send you the link for this list. I’ve been putting together this list over the years where I’ve been trying to send this to my colleagues where it’s just like, Look, you know, here are the folks within this location that will do these certain things. Because I do think there is sometimes residential won’t do commercial, sometimes very, vice versa. Sometimes, you know, the commercial guys, you know, won’t do these little small jobs, because they’re not, they’re only looking for these big, you know, money jobs. And so I think that’s a lot of times, or sometimes companies don’t have insurance, right? I might hire a painter, and then my building here requires, you know, a million dollars of insurance and so on and so forth. I can’t do 5 million or, you know, I’ve even seen 15 million in New Yorkers.

Katrina Stevenson  36:57  

Wow. Yeah, he just right. I was like, Who’s got 15?

Jonathan Johnson  37:03  

Yeah, I mean, that’s, that’s the goal is to just try to streamline some of these things and make it easier for people to find, you know, these these different because again, right, like I said, I’ve gone to general contractors, not in my bidding at beginning of my career, not knowing that they only wanted to do like, you know, multi million dollar ti projects. And I was like, hey, look, I have this thing here. It’s gonna cost me like 800 bucks, can you guys do it? And they’re like, No, we can’t do that game. So, you know, who does do that? You know, is it you know? And then who? And how do we get those folks kind of connected? Basically, man, that sounds like a wonderful business idea, like in an app or directed, right? Or if it’s an on if you can plug in, because I know we run into this challenge of, of learning, like each company has like a process, kind of like what you said, right? Like, are you allowed to just hire them directly? Or do you have to go through somebody else to approve it, right? Or Kenya was on a credit, like a lot of companies have like an amount they can put on a credit card? Like, no, we can just buy it right? Or even the government has that right. And so that would I think that’s a wonderful business idea. Oh, yeah, I’ve been working on it. And as a side gig for a while, so I’ll let you know if it if it comes to fruition, you know, we finally got some software development support on the back end, so I don’t know, we’ll see it, we’ll see how it works. But I would love Yeah,

Greg Owens  38:21  

I mean, if you want to, like run it past me and collaborate a little or something. I know, I’m not gonna start a, you know, a software business, but I’d love to see it happen.

Jonathan Johnson  38:32  

No, and I think you’d offer some insight, you know, I come from a, you know, the tenant side of house, right? Where I would love to get some insight from, you know, folks that are, you know, what your what your issues are? Yeah, like I you know, when you repeat customers, is it, you know,

Greg Owens  38:47  

yeah, we should totally, we should totally set up another call because I’m, I’m involved in an organization called entrepreneurs organization, right. And it’s a, it’s made of entrepreneurs that it’s, it’s all about supporting and helping entrepreneurs learn and grow. And it’s global organization. Right. So I think it’s like 13,000 people worldwide. And I know people in the different spaces right in the app building in the different in the different technologies, but I think you’re onto something because I think there’s a this is a niche that’s not being looked at, by a lot of like sex. Like you said earlier, sexy companies wouldn’t even know this exists that this is a problem. Right? And I’ve seen it on my end, right?

Jonathan Johnson  39:26  

Yeah. And I was gonna say, too, it’s it’s one of those things where I think I’ve seen a few folks try and it’s but they don’t come from the background. And so it’s a very unfinished product, or it’s something I don’t really need. I’m like, Oh, well, this is nice. But in reality, I want to know what painters I can use and you know, North Dakota, because I have this built in North Dakota, and they’re not able to help that So yeah, that’s the hope. But yeah, we can definitely talk about it offline on different call us, let me know and yeah, hopefully, you know, we’ve been working on it very, very slow over the years. But yeah, it might be the time to strike with Inside because all this COVID stuff, because of all the COVID stuff. Go ahead, Katrina.

Katrina Stevenson  40:04  

And it would be nice to see some other platform besides Yelp and Google takeover when you type in like painter and North Dakota, and it’s whoever pays the most on Yelp pops up when it’s not always true. Right. Right.

Greg Owens  40:17  

Which and that doesn’t always benefit. Jonathan now, right? Cuz he doesn’t want he wants to make sure they have the insurance, but they’re they’re like vetted people that are in the system in a way, right?

Jonathan Johnson  40:28  

Yeah, ideally, you want them to be because again, that’s the value to me is not, it’s not having to go through this wild goose chase. I know that, hey, Greg does outstanding work. Here’s his scope. Here’s his kind of wheelhouse, like, you know, 25,000 square feet, and no more, no less or whatever. And so then I can look at that and say, Okay, well, this guy seems like he’s, you know, oh, and also, hey, look, you know, Yelp or not Yelp. But, you know, a former customers have said, hey, look, yeah, he’s done what he’s supposed to do the other facilities, managers,

Greg Owens  40:59  

their facilities, not not just not just like, Mary Sue with her.

Jonathan Johnson  41:06  

Because what, because they, they have a different standard than what I might have. Whereas we’re looking for things that we want to be, you know, perfect for these employees. Whereas, you know, I can I, you know, I can paint a bathroom, okay, you know, where, but I probably nowhere near you know, I can’t be I’m not a professional, it wouldn’t look good here, it would be

Greg Owens  41:24  

bad, right? And then you can also like, differentiate between, like, This building is a union only building and we can all interact, like so Oh, here’s only the so you don’t go through that, because we’ve wasted time, right? Like where we were, we get excited. We’re like, Oh, we got a start date, we got a signed contract. They’re like, no problem. And then they’re like, Oh, hey, by the way, are you union or non union? I know exactly. Sorry, we can’t bring you in.

Jonathan Johnson  41:51  

Or like, have a designator to say your union having designator, they say you have the insurance, you know, say you want to even do like corporate social responsibility, things that, hey, this is a veteran owned business. And so you can easily create a whereas right now, it’s very difficult, it takes me a lot of time to kind of get through this, you could easily create, like a program, that you could make a kit of parts within each office and have these designated contractors. And you know, if they, if they do, you’re wrong, you can give them a bad review, and, you know, move on to the next one. So,

Katrina Stevenson  42:22  

why do people by the people, for the facility managers by the facility managers,

Jonathan Johnson  42:28  

and maybe I need to write that?

Greg Owens  42:33  

Yeah, that’s great. Well, um, so like, we’re towards the end of the thing here, any, any tracks that you’ve learned or any other things like books or things like that, that has helped you in your career here now.

Jonathan Johnson  42:47  

Um, you know, I was very fortunate that when I did my master’s, I just downloaded so many different kinds of papers, like academic papers, and you know, even something as simple of like, you know, you’d be surprised at how many people just like, doing research on certain things. A lot of it is more towards client facing places like so like how people design a grocery store is very psychological, and like figuring out like, what are they going to turn left when they go into this grocery store? Or if they are, they’re like, Well, how do I build this out like that. And so I read a lot of that stuff. And it’s been very helpful and make it and making me understand how to do you know, these kinds of buildings, and then, you know, tenant focused programs. As far as anything else is concerned, I realized architecture stuff, you know, the depth of American cities is always been by Jane Jacobs has been something that I kind of refer to, because it’s, I look at all these offices, it’s communities almost, right. And so you’re building a community? And, you know, how do successful communities, you know, exist, and, you know, to look at some of these books, also a lot of stuff on design, you know, I’m just kind of like, well, what’s user design? And, you know, I tried to make my offices, you know, easy for people to navigate, right? So you don’t want to slick a floors, because somebody might slip, you know, just those kinds of things. I always try to put into my mind, I read a lot of books on, but I can provide you a list of something that you could put in the comments or something. Yeah, that’d be great.

Greg Owens  44:15  

Yeah, because like, you mentioned it earlier, like being a generalist, right, like goes into facilities manager, they might have some specialties that they’re really good at, but they’re really like having to be a generalist of the the sort of the well being of the whole building right in the occupants and that kind of thing.

Jonathan Johnson  44:33  

Yeah, Gone are the days of the guy who had 30 keys and wouldn’t talk to anybody. And you

Greg Owens  44:39  

remember those guys?

Jonathan Johnson  44:41  

Yeah. In the room and they wouldn’t come out and they wouldn’t talk to you. You have to be my favorite.

Greg Owens  44:48  

Oh, man, I remember like cuz I you know, I’ve been doing I’ve been painting since I was 16. So I was in San Francisco in 1986. Right and, and that was the facilities managers right there. Right. You go find them in the bottom of the building. Right, like in this little like cubby hole there, there be a wall of keys, right and a key making machine inside.

Jonathan Johnson  45:08  

Yeah, and you know, now if you’re the face of the workplace cold, right, if you want to make it through, you’re going to have to learn, you know, emotional intelligence, you’re gonna have to learn to kind of tailored to these folks. And be more of an HR person, like, I have HR and a generalist across everything, like, I know how an H vac system works, you know, but I’m not gonna I don’t have the time to necessarily become a professional h HVAC technician, because I you know, it’s not going to, it would help, but it wouldn’t help me in my in my grand goal, what I’m trying, right,

Greg Owens  45:38  

right, right. And then that way, the job is becoming even more sick, sexier, and a lot of ways, right like it is. And then you see a lot more

Jonathan Johnson  45:46  

people getting into it, you see a lot of I mean, it’s become one of these things where now you get a seat at the table, right? Whereas before when I first joined, you know, it was like, Who’s that guy? Oh, he’s the facilities guy. Now. It’s just like, oh, he’s on the website, like, Who is this? Yeah, you know, he’s got LinkedIn followers, like, what is this going? I think it’s one of those things where it’s become a lot more sexy. And so it’s it because a lot of people like events manager, and a lot of people like these other things, and because they like, Oh, well, I can learn how and then they learn about these things. Like it’s fun, right, you know, learning how to craft a security plan, or, you know, the differences between a Class A or a B building, you know, it’s things that people don’t know off the top of your head. If you’re very inquisitive person, curious person, then I think you’ll really like the career field.

Greg Owens  46:29  

That’s great. That’s great. Um, and if people want to learn more about you, is LinkedIn the best way?

Jonathan Johnson  46:36  

Yeah, LinkedIn is the best way. I’m pretty active on there. Strangely enough, and or, you know, yeah, that LinkedIn is the best way.

Greg Owens  46:45  

All right, that sounds good. Thank you so much for being on our podcast is making it a pleasure to chat with you about these things. I got excited about your business idea. That’s so awesome. I wish you all the best of luck and stay safe going into fall and winter now. Yeah, yes.

Jonathan Johnson  47:05  

Yes, you guys as well. Stay safe. If you need anything, let me know. And it was a pleasure to be on here. Thank you so much.

Outro  47:20  

Thanks for listening to the watching paint dry podcast. We’ll see you again next time and be sure to click subscribe to get future episodes.