Greg Owens 19:59
Yeah. Yeah, even with I remember, like with paint products before, we had the all these low VOC very environmentally friendly paints long before, this is like 30 years ago when I was painting. And we’re using oil based paints, which we don’t really use ever anymore, especially inside. I did a doctor’s office over a weekend. And on that next Monday, everybody was like, angry at me that the smell was too intense, or like, they couldn’t go to work. Right, it was a disaster. And so then the next weekend, we had to do more painting. And I was like, oh, man, what am I going to do? And then an old old painter said, Oh, just put some vanilla in the paint. Right? And I put vanilla in the paint. So then the paint smells like cookies, or cookie dough. Right? And so and then nobody complained like the night we didn’t do anything different. Because, you know, I’m just, I’m young. I’m just trying to get a project done, right? Like, you know, like, what are we gonna do? We’re gonna put fans in like, we had fans in didn’t like, they just came in and smelt chemical paint. And they’re like, Oh, my head hurts the next week, and they come in, and they’re like, Oh, I smell cookie dough. I my head doesn’t hurt. 30 years, we still have the vanilla on our shelves, you know, just in case? Well, we use it. We use it occasionally. When we’re doing something like, like using some kinds of products inside that, that people will be very sensitive to.
Jay Hsueh 21:24
Interesting. I never heard that. But but but I will be definitely much more pleasant if I because I would expect in the painting. Smell right. But if I walked in real life is when I will definitely Yeah, that’s just
Greg Owens 21:42
people don’t know, like, I even like it from my own. When I paint my own house. Sometimes I put it in just because it smells so much better. Right? It’s like, you know, it’s air rating this nice vanilla.
Katrina Stephenson 21:53
We did it at the office, too. Oh, that’s right. Oh, yeah.
Greg Owens 21:59
Yeah, that is awesome. And Jay, you know, you reminded me too, because people, we in this world we live in today, we take it for granted that the our, our environment, we want the environment to create this space of flow and productivity. And we really take it for granted, right? Like how much how important that is to us to have like the right temperature. So we can people can do their best work. Because they don’t want to think about the building and the facility. When they’re doing their work. They want to come into work and just program or do whatever they’re doing. And it be comfortable. Right. And so what is yours? And that’s it’s crazy important, because this places around the world, and they don’t have that as a luxury.
Jay Hsueh 22:46
Yeah, yeah. And then you really think about the there’s a study from UC Irvine say. So every distraction, distraction in the office, you take about 25 minutes to recover. So which means like, every time you get the instructor right, it is 25 minutes, 45 minutes, 45 minutes. So it’s pretty crazy if you really think about it. And it’s actually true, actually true. So recently, um, I do a lot of interview with, with tech company and also internally with, with our employees. So really interesting fact is I asked the engineering team say, hey, do you prefer work from home or you prefer to, to back to office. So here’s the interesting fact, when the engineer in the execution mode means like it just coding, most of them prefer at home, right? There’s no distraction, they just stay home locked in, in their room, and they just keep coding it, right. And then on the other hand, when they want to go to the office mostly is about for example, brainstorming. For example, when they need more discussion, a roadmap meeting, they found is really difficult to replace by zoom, replaced by Google Doc, and all of that. So that’s kind of you know, that kind of things kind of remind me like few future work right, like, how do you create a environment that that is happy, engage, and people go out there have a productive talk and discussion, that might be the future of work, I, I will say, most of the company will will do like most flexible working location and hours by now. But I think the that that is why I think the demand for software in in a commercial building space will will increase.
Greg Owens 24:37
I can I can only imagine as you were saying that about the engineers, you know, like, that makes so much sense because my engineer friends, you know, they, they could lock themselves in a room and just go flat out for 10 hours code. And then but then they need to collaborate. But boy, if if they can get it down to where it’s like Star Wars where you can go in and have like a holographic image of yourself in a room with everybody else. Those engineers, my friends that are engineers would be blown away. Like they would love that. It must be getting close. I haven’t seen anything on it. But right, like where you could just like zoom in, but you’re in a room and you’re looking, you’re looking around like the it’s the Council of like, Sith Lords or whatever, all around you. Yeah. And you could use your own avatar that would be shooting my dog. And Jay so told me like, Man, this is this is amazing business that you have. You’re the founder of it. What? What’s, what was your path to getting to this place?
Jay Hsueh 25:37
Yeah, in the beginning, I was. So I was hardware engineer, actually, I worked for Philips Lighting, the lighting company, the lighting company, but they have a division for semiconductors. So I understood, like the, you know, the hardware system designer. But I always like to start up. So I have my first company when I was when I was college. It was a music company, I small, small businesses. That’s my first company. But I always, you know, in love with startups. So during my time, in NXP, I tried to explore it, you know, other startup opportunity. So in the very beginning was, you know, I read in an AI platform, so that was the time like AI, machine learning just start hitting really hard on so everybody’s trying now. So I created a platform specifically for SMB market. So for someone who doesn’t know about AI, but wants to try the AI stuff. So I create a very simple platform, say, hey, you can train like very simple model on that. And so it turned into the consulting services. And I quit my daytime job, and I doing this, but realize soon realize it’s hard to scale up with the consulting services. I’m looking for specific area to be focused on one of the project I worked with. Honeywell, Ellington, Honeywell in in Seattle.
Greg Owens 27:02
Big. There’s a big HVAC company, right? Yeah, yeah. And then I mean, they do. Yeah.
Jay Hsueh 27:09
Yeah. And that’s the first time getting to this, like commercial building space. I am very, really fascinated because the infrastructure of the data collection is ready. You know, it’s solid, actually. And then it’s so underutilised. Right? It’s like, nobody created much of the innovation there. And I tried to figure out why. And then. So that’s the first time I propose about the Roby idea to this customer. And their reaction is really possible. So I interview another like 4060 company and Hasselblad basically say, hey, Jay to Google product they would like to try. So that’s where I get it. You know, like I get excited about it, you know, dive into this idea.
Greg Owens 27:51
Yeah, that that is so fascinating, because, you know, there’s so many different ways your your service could be could really bring a lot of change to legacy businesses, right? Because I mean, some of those companies, you mentioned Philips and Honeywell, those are legacy old companies, right. And so they, they really need, they haven’t changed in a lot of ways for a very long time. But there’s a lot of inefficiencies right? Like when it comes to lighting, like you still see San Francisco is lit up at night. Nobody’s working in any of those buildings. But there’s so many buildings that are still just lit up. Whereas something like your service could say, Hey, we don’t see anybody in this building right now. We can shut all these lights off. Right? And we turn the HVAC way down. That’s amazing.
Jay Hsueh 28:40
Yeah, I think you’re you’re you’re right about it is like the industry need innovation, I think. But I think COVID-19 is actually a really good tailwind and forcing function to the industry as well, as I previously, Sundar, the solution is almost like a vitamin, it’s good to have. Yeah, now is gradually changing, you must have right so you are the building owner, you want to keep the retention from your tenant now you need to provide a new new solution. Otherwise, the tendency How can I bring my free back with you don’t have a new solution. Right. So now I think is a really good timing and interesting timing to do innovation in this space.
Greg Owens 29:21
And so now the back end of this, did you actually create the AI? Or are you using some other AI and then mix it in into what your so it’s more into this niche.
Jay Hsueh 29:36
So basically how how machine learning works, it’s like there’s a lot of open source model, you can training but the data has been collected by by ourselves. So that’s essentially how we work. So we got the basic model library from Python and then we’ll talk for the data.
Greg Owens 29:55
And so meaning like you’re just like training the AI to focus on this These parameters. Yeah, that makes sense. And then give you back reports and data that you can then look at and say, yes, we’re on the right track, or we need to like, we need to like change it a little bit, or we need to add another thing to have the AI focus on. And then as it learns it, doesn’t you it doesn’t need as much input from you.
Jay Hsueh 30:20
Yeah, theoretically, yes. And then it will be building by building as well, is because you’ve got to feed back on a tangent, right. And so the more you use the product, the the AI will do more for you. But at the same time, that’s why back to the point is actually the AI service not a problem. The problem is, how do you get adoption? How do you get engagement to get enough feedback to feed into your machine? I guess that’s why that’s one of the reasons, you know, beginning, when we design a product, we thinking about how do we be more friendly to the employee, right? And then how do we create a good experience and people like, I want to use it right. And so that’s all hence the logo, and hence being on slack on board. As soon as I saw the logo, it’s adorable. I love it already. Yeah, and the character actually helps. So we can send out some corrective message to the users that hey, so one of the example we try multiple experiments. One of them is like this is like, hey, Roby right now this elementary school student write about the more you teach him, it’s going to be high school or something like that. Something like this, some of the some of the Yeah.
Katrina Stephenson 31:39
Tamagotchi, Giga pets. And then Yep.
Greg Owens 31:45
And then and then over time, your logo changes within that company. So it represents an older looking role. Right. At first, it’s just a young, like, happy go lucky, yo. Roby. And then like, it gets more and more like, no, yeah, we’ll take care of that.
Jay Hsueh 32:05
Actually. We haven’t released to any customer yet. But internally, we do have Roby’s girlfriend. A pink color one. So Roby just has blue color, we have a pink color of Roby.
Katrina Stephenson 32:21
I’m really sold.
Greg Owens 32:22
That’s awesome. Right? Yeah. So yeah, you can choose you can choose which one you want. Exactly. That’s awesome. So Jay, I got work. I’m a painting company, right. And we’re legacy like painting services, painting of buildings hasn’t really changed to a slight changes this changes in materials and some tools and things like that, but it’s super slow. And it’s super, it’s really hard to get employee employees to adapt. Like we have these new sprayers that are handheld, and they’re battery operated, but it’s it’s so hard to get my employees to to want to learn how to use this new tool and and to use it specifically on certain products so it’s not good to spray your whole house and electrical is better but if you have just like a front door it’s way better you know and way quicker. How you You’re so smart and you’re in this industry How do you see AI changing painting companies or my little daughter like like construction companies?
Jay Hsueh 33:30
Well, I guess is is really just in fact like starting from starting from data I studying for a study I would say it’s you will be an interesting study because you literally just mentioned about the smell and I never in my mind like Pentti will related to smell rayless smell I think it will definitely affect my emotion right in this work environment. And I know there’s a scientific fact is like the smell were related to your different level of like mental status as well right? If I were you I will be very fascinated about this. How do you how do I you know for example, you can literally say hey, if this really you want to be what kinds of animals fear what kinds of energy you want to put into your company or this is a spot right so you want to be more calm maybe.
Greg Owens 34:27
yeah, yeah cuz they have those little we have one in our office one of those little where you can put like, Eucalyptus in it and it gives off like,
Katrina Stephenson 34:35
oh smell is big, big culture here for us. We’ve got tonnes of that calming things here in the office.
Greg Owens 34:47
Well, there’s a lot of there’s a lot of studies on painting and lighting right like and and creating the right mood so you know, wouldn’t want you wouldn’t want if you have ADHD seven year old right? You will Wouldn’t want to paint the room red. Right? Right? That that, that makes sense. Yeah. Right even though they might be in the fire engines and all that you want to do something like a light green, and they do this in prisons and that kind of stuff, right? They try to like, like have a colour that’s going to be more calming. And I even met a girl recently that works for Apple, and she’s a scientist, where we’re she works on trying to make sure that the they have the right colour in Pixar films. So that so that the colors that you’re seeing on the screen, make you feel the emotions of what’s happening with the actors. Interesting. And that’s it, like, I was blown away. I was like, this is a whole that’s a whole career and a job and, and a specialty. But it makes sense, right? Because the more we can dial in, and what you’re saying is the more I don’t think anybody’s doing it on the smell side of things, as far as painting goes. And I
Jay Hsueh 36:01
Right, right. I mean, I didn’t know, no, I mean, so that’s why I think that’s a that’s a selling point for me, like LED lighting and positive smell like how do you create just by the simple BAM team? How, how does that improve? Right? Your working environment or anything? Right might be hearing a startup?
Greg Owens 36:21
Katrina, you need to like do some research into that.
Jay Hsueh 36:25
researching collecting the data as well. Right? So for example, you could do the customer interview, collecting the data, and I think, you know, to the point is like AI is not like a magic, right is, is basically is all about data. And I and I really felt at least for me, it’s really fascinating. in any industry, if you collect a certain amount of data, you starting from the question and find the question, you collected the data that by itself, for me is AI.
Greg Owens 36:55
Yeah, and I talked to somebody else, um, I belong to this organization called Entrepreneurs’ Organization. It’s it, they have a great chapter up there, they can introduce you if you’re interested in some, it’s it’s to help entrepreneurs learn and grow. And I remember listening to this guy speak speak about AI, and I talked to him afterward. And one of the areas I was seeing it can be super useful is to come up with a way that a customer can plug in a few numbers of like, or take some pictures of a room. And then the AI looks at that data, and is able to then give them a price based on what we need as a company to charge. And that because that’s, that’s a that’s a tough point for customers, they really, you know, what’s the number one thing they think about when they’re going to buy a good or a service is they want to know how much right away, right? Like they want to know that information like right now so that they can make a decision moving forward or not. Right. And so if we can figure out a way and there’s companies that have done this, but they’re behemoths like we’re so small comparatively. But, you know, you can get that data, right, you can get the data on the building, and you can get all that stuff. Speaking of AI companies, Amazon is like this truck backing up with making all these noises. Heard. But yeah, so how, how does small businesses? You would you look at using AI or exploring, just getting the AI to look at something? Do they need to go to a consulting company? Or is there ways they can do it themselves?
Jay Hsueh 38:38
Um, it depends what level of AI you’re talking about, if you’re talking about a lot of question can be solved by data analytic. It doesn’t have to be doing machine learning in Barbie in any coding, I think, at least from my experience, like, you know, a lot of SMB question it can be solved by that, right. So if that’s the case, a simple spreadsheet was patient and collected the data and then the and then spent time to look into the data should be should give you some idea. And if you doing something, for example, more automation, for example, some of the, like, agriculture industry, they want to do some automation like for example, they using camera to detect like, you know, the quality of example, tomato or that grows, right. And then those are more complex. Yes, those sorts of needs. Visit pacific time company is not even consulting services. I specifically started doing specific things like vertical, right AI. So I think right now, there is a two type of companies or one type is like they have the AI platform and the you’re picking the price, you have a project with them. They do this and then deploy the AI internally in your enterprise or you go for the startup that has a specific political hyper product like Right and indirectly, isn’t it? Yeah, that’s usually what I’ve seen. So
Greg Owens 40:04
that makes that makes so much sense. And as we get closer to ending here today, but I have to ask what’s your? What’s your thoughts on AI? Like, taking over the world? Or, like AI robot? Yeah. I just, I just read a book on this where it goes rogue and it’s bad. You know?
Jay Hsueh 40:26
I, I definitely, at least what I had heard, I think AI can point to more than people. Now. It actually is. And it’s pretty accurate. It’s pretty scary in terms of that. However, I think, for in, in my case, I cannot speak for the company in, in my case, I think it’s all about the use cases, is this use case that provide the value for facility manager for the company for employees? Or not? So use cases for us is always tricky. So right. Yeah. So that means that is almost like in at least in my field is like market kind of determine, you know, where, where this technology will
Greg Owens 41:08
- Right? Yeah, yeah, I was just, I went to out to Burning Man over this weekend. And mice. Yeah, it was a renegade burn, just like 35,000 people. And it was really well organised, even though there was no organisation around it, right. But what blew me away was that and you can watch this on YouTube is that there was a drone show, and the drones are up in the sky, and they do all these different things. And they’re changing colours, and they’re making different graphics and things like that in the sky, it’s probably a couple of drones, right? And, and then the drones formed the man, like a 60 foot tall man, right? And then and then the man like, turns to the 360, its arms came up, you know, like this. And, and, you know, and I’m watching this going, Wow, you know, this is intense, right? Because it’s, you know, it’s really cool. And then, and then the man burned to the ground, when all the drones kind of fell down and change their colours and like, was black, right? And I was thinking, like, well, they could green, and so green of them. And that, and that’s a lot of sophisticated software, controlling all those things, right. And, you know, they could easily just say, go out there and like, you know, hunt down, all these humans are sure to write like, the technology is gonna be getting closer and closer to that kind of reality, you know, like military use, and that kind of thing, right? Because it’s, it’s, it’s mind boggling, you know?
Jay Hsueh 42:37
Oh, yeah. Yeah, it’s good. The drone technology is also getting really, really scary as well. It depends on the use case. Again, right? And depends on use cases depends on the users too. And what they’re Yeah, exactly. Right. Right. Yeah, exactly.
Greg Owens 42:52
These things, you know, with these great powers comes incredibly more and more responsibility, right. That’s what that’s and then what’s your, what’s your background? educationally? Like you graduate? What does it take to be a person like you that can get into this kind of programming of AI?
Jay Hsueh 43:12
Oh, so I’m, I am an electrical engineer. So I study Wi Fi, from, you know, undergrad and grad school, I suppose. And, but so but during that time, there, AI was not still not like, you know, that popular yet. But when I graduate from grad school, yeah, machine learning is one of the hot topics I learned by myself in terms of the software. Because now, nowadays, you leverage a lot of the open sources, like online courses is all free, actually. So it’s really cool, you can get some basic knowledge on that. And there’s some community you can join, and then have a discussion with people and to really understand what people are doing. And there’s a lot of open sources as well.
Greg Owens 43:58
That’s phenomenal. And I also saw on your LinkedIn that you’re hiring, what what type of people are you looking for? within your company?
Jay Hsueh 44:06
Yeah, so we are looking for customer support. And we looking for a sales rep. Right? And, yeah, and business development. So those are the three personal that we’re looking for, of course engineer. We’re also hiring. That’s probably that’s probably constant looking for engineers,
Greg Owens 44:24
like my friends that are software companies are just non stop. Right? I mean, we’re we it’s like us with painters, we’re just non stop always looking for more painters. Right, right. Yeah. Wow. And so how would people find out more about you or get in touch with you would be LinkedIn would be would that be the best way?
Jay Hsueh 44:43
Yeah, LinkedIn or directly write me that email. So Jay@tellRoby, te l l r. o. r o b y.com. tellroby.com, cool. Find me. Yeah,
Greg Owens 44:54
yeah. And we’ll put that in the in the show notes and everything. Awesome. Yeah. Thank you so much for being on this podcast. Jay, it’s a real pleasure to talk to you, you know and to learn more about your company and what you’re up to. I’m really excited to see where you go with this in the next year, same.
Jay Hsueh 45:14
Thanks, guys. Very fun conversation.
Greg Owens 45:19
And this is the Watching Paint Dry podcast. Thank you, everyone.
Outro 45:34
Thanks for listening to the Watching Paint Dry podcast. We’ll see you again next time and be sure to click subscribe to get future episodes.