Peter Ankerstjerne 19:21
no and I think that’s after saving grace for a lot of hotels. I know a lot of hotels and especially city hotels are now looking into that whole co working space to say if Is there a way to you know, use the space that they have more effectively and also get back to be more attractive for the business travelers. They can have that combination of hotel room bookings but also conference room and then co working spaces within the confines of the hotel I think that’s also something we’ll see in the future. They will see much more often because they need to get into that market and they are already beginning to chip in into this this area
Greg Owens 19:55
I completely forgot cuz I traveling a lot last few years and love the book. plane is a great place for me to work because I can’t get up and go to the, you know, go to the refrigerator on a pan, it’s like, I’m stuck for four hours, for eight hours go into Europe, you know, then I just get a ton of work done it. So it’s like, Great focus time, I’m in my own little pod. But then hotels to the hotel lobby has changed over time into that kind of a work. You can, I’ve held many, many, many meetings in hotel lobbies, right. Like it’s the perfect sphere, you can order coffee, and they’ve got comfortable chairs. So I think you’re right that I think they’re gonna move in that direction, big, big way. And this is where like, the technology comes in a company like yours that you’re working for now. Because I can imagine they need lots of data on what people are actually using and not using. And one of the best ways. So do you guys have things in that regard, technology wise, that they’re you’re looking at during this sort of transition period from going from what we used to know, to this new sort of like, it’s not a post pandemic world? But we’re headed that way?
Peter Ankerstjerne 20:59
Yeah, we’re heading in that direction. Yeah, absolutely. And we’re working a lot with, you know, what they call BIM modeling, building information modeling, where you have you, basically, you’re working on even, you know, digital twins that you would normally see in the manufacturing space, where you basically can build a virtual digital twin of your workplace, and then you can begin to use all the data to say, you know, why is nobody using the meeting room down in the basement? Is there any way that we can move that into another place where we can use that space more effectively? What is the you know, what is the usage and the occupancy of the building? Where are people going? How are they moving about and stuff. So as the buildings are becoming more smart, or intelligent as, as also, we have IoT devices based, you know, on every table and in every floor. And then we really get all that data and information that you can build, begin to make the changes of the workplace and how people are using the workplace, basically, on the fly, and you can make those changes, you don’t have to wait for a year and do a rebuild, you can do them, you know, constantly. So you constantly optimize the space that you’re in. And especially now that we’re talking about this more, much more flexible workspace. Yeah, that’s going to be a requirement for the future as people are working from home or are working remotely somehow. So you don’t really know who’s going to be in the office at any given point in time who’s going to be out. So you’ve got to have that flexibility around the workplace. That’s where some of the tech companies like Planon that I work for now are coming into that field of that whole workplace experience enabled by digital by these smart platforms that we’re working on. I believe that’s a game changer. I mean, it has been it’s not that you it’s been around for a while, but I think it’s gonna pick up because everything is going to be IoT enabled, and digitized. And also using AI in the way that we are actually working with the data and being able to make these adaptions on the workplace. We go.
Greg Owens 22:57
Yeah, and it’s so great to be able to capture that data, use the AI to sort of give you guys back real smart reports on what’s being used as not being used and how to track people and what’s the most likelihood of what days they’re going to come in and that kind of stuff. because like you said earlier, I mean, the workforce, people want that freedom to choose. Maybe like at eight o’clock in the morning, they might be like, oh, today I actually want to go into the office and be around meet my boss and that kind of stuff. And I would think this technology would start to like predict how many people are actually coming today?
Peter Ankerstjerne 23:29
Yeah, absolutely. And also, I mean, using apps, especially in Europe, we still have that opt in, and where you because of the GDPR rules and stuff, you have to opt in. And you cannot just track people around. But as soon as they opt in, you know, you can book a desk, you can see you know who else is at the office, you can see what’s the menu, or what was the choice down at the canteen on that particular day, and all these things that are seemingly irrelevant. That was maybe irrelevant, you know, a year ago, all of Sunday become important now, because you want to make sure you you know, tap into all the nuances and the benefits that you have, you want to make sure that the chances of randomly, you know, meeting your boss over a cup of coffee or at the coffee machine, that likelihood increases dramatically if he is actually he or she is actually in the office right now. So knowing some of these things, and using technology and the apps that are available for that that’s kind of I think that’s going to change the whole environment. That’s going to be a very important part of people making decisions of whether to come into the office or working from home.
Greg Owens 24:27
Yeah, absolutely. Right on, you know, but I know here in America that we don’t need a I just know that nobody is going to come into work on Fridays. Like it’ll be an empty day. Almost. It was before maybe,
Peter Ankerstjerne 24:42
you know, yeah, but it was before. That’s that’s the interesting part.
Yeah,
but that’s the interesting part because maybe none of our generation Greg will come into the office on Friday because we want to be at home with our family and open a bottle of wine early and you know, but maybe the younger generation Want to come in on Friday? Because that’s where, you know, the office has figured out in order to attract people in on Fridays, we’re gonna offer you know, a Friday bar or early party or pizza or whatever. Right? So also the whole notion of workplaces and businesses and HR functions and facility managers working together in order to how do we attract people to come into the office, and when do we want them in and other certain groups of people we want in at certain times, and all that stuff, I think that’s going to become highly interesting. And that’s where facility managers can learn a lot from, you know, the retail industry and hotel industry and hospitality industry and stuff like that in order to attract people and make the value proposition of coming to work completely different than it was before. Because before it was all about productivity, right? Right. In the future. It’s going to be about social belonging, cultural engagement, and meeting your peers and your co workers for collaborative meetings, and work brainstorms and stuff like that, that you want to do physically, because a lot of the other stuff, you can do that from anywhere, if it’s just a matter of, you know, buckling down and getting some work done, you could stay at home, or you could go to Starbucks, or wherever you feel comfortable going. But I think the business wants to attract people into the office from time to time, not every day, but from time to time, in order to have that cultural immersion to be part of the corporate culture. I think that’s really what’s interesting around this whole space. At the moment, I think we’re going to see a lot of differences.
Greg Owens 26:25
Yeah, it’s gonna be exciting to see how these things transpire and see how things work out. Right, like, and what does, what does the world look like, in five years? You know, after this? Yeah, it’d be, it’s gonna be really fascinating. I know that you’re just getting started at the new company and Planon what’s your role there. Now, what what is it that you’re going to be doing day to day,
Peter Ankerstjerne 26:48
my title is got a fancy title, it’s a chief strategy officer. So so I’m going to be working with the strategy of the company innovations, strategic partnerships. And then I also got Marketing and Communications within my sole remit. But it’s I mean, it’s not a big organization, we have about 800 850 employees, but we are growing a lot. We just made a strategic partnership with Schneider Electric, the big French company, I think it used to be French, I think that they see themselves more international. Now. They also have a part of the head offices in Hong Kong, they got a big other development based out of Boston. So it’s a truly international company Planon and Schneider has formed a partnership. So to bring that whole, you know, new technology into the workplace and connecting all the devices that Schneider is using via the Planon platform. That’s very exciting, especially also around sustainability. And in the environment. Schneider has just been named the most environmentally friendly company in the world. So that’s a fantastic partner to have for us and Planon because we want to tap into that journey and, and help also to make our platform to help other companies to be there go on that sustainability journey that Schneider has been on. So that’s quite
Greg Owens 27:56
exciting. It’s like you guys want to have like proof of concept, too. Right? You got this idea in your head and being a part of that growth? Yeah.
Peter Ankerstjerne 28:04
Right. Yeah, no, absolutely. And it’s very basic. I mean, your business’s environmental impact is stake and complex. Part of that has to do with the built environment buildings that you occupy. And if you don’t have a system, an AWS system, or some kind of a system to at least measure your current impact, it’s going to be very difficult to develop a strategy for how to actually reduce that environmental footprint, co2 emissions, energy consumptions, that type of thing. So having that platform is the first step in the journey to become more environmentally conscious and create some good environmental strategies checked, you know, the business into the future.
Greg Owens 28:41
Yeah. And it’s one thing to build like the building with all of that digitalized inside it right. And to have that sort of forethought, and like, what how are we going to have this building and do it from the ground up, but brought the United States in a smaller way? There’s so many legacy building so old, and that becomes another challenge. You guys must have ways of sort of mesh networking, all of these devices together with inside of, you know, 1000 year old building, I’m sure. Yeah, it’s
Peter Ankerstjerne 29:07
definitely a challenge. I mean, there’s still a lot of stuff you can do. I mean, if you take a stroll down San Francisco during the night, you can see how I don’t know how many buildings are lit up still, even though it’s the middle of the night as like, Why on earth Who the hell is working on this. And nobody is they just never shut up the bloody lighting, all the ventilation system, all the heating or anything like that. And now we are getting these systems, especially through Schneider were automatically shuts off when you know, at certain times, or when there’s no window nobody offers and you can do that you can actually do that in an older you know, building and then you can install some of these devices. And these technologies are fairly easy and fairly, they’re fairly inexpensive also to do I mean the ROI and doing some of that is very good because you know, you get the savings from you know, the energy you’re not using, right so so some of these things are no brainers.
Greg Owens 29:59
Yeah, even for them Homeowners like I know that I in my own homes love having like sort of the automated heating and lights that come on and go off as I come in, you know, that kind of thing. Katrina, something she wants to chat about?
Katrina Stevenson 30:12
No, this is a perfect segue, I believe, because I’m a huge fan of Danish living and Haiku. Does any of this come into play for you personally? And is it because I have the book The Little Book of Haiku? The Art of Danish living?
Peter Ankerstjerne 30:27
Oh, Haiku. I thought it was something Japanese. Sorry. I don’t want to be too crazy Danish about it. But Haiku threw me off just a second that we call do. So it’s a very different
Katrina Stevenson 30:44
way, but I’m dying to know is it Danish living as their secrets to other things from someone from Denmark?
Peter Ankerstjerne 30:51
Gosh, I don’t know. I think it is. I mean, I’ve been working internationally for for a long time. And I think there is something special to the Danish word hookah, hookah and it’s you know, your instead little coziness comfortable going and taking off your shoes and having a little fire and, you know, in the in the fireplace and stuff like that, and just cuddling up and standing there. So and very social, you know, people are we, you know, gathering around and chatting and stuff like that. So I think I mean, we hear it so often that especially Danish men, you are saying, you don’t really notice it, but from outsiders, I guess it is something special. Yeah, yeah, you’re probably right. And we also have that at the workplace also. But it’s also a culture that is very flat. We don’t have big hierarchies. And it’s a very open, trustworthy culture, people trust each other. So I guess that’s also part of that whole setup around that all of a sudden, we have become a concept of almost go far north, it’s dark and cold for a good chunk of the year. So yeah, I guess
Greg Owens 31:50
where you can relax and not get depressed, right? You need to have that social interaction and everything. Because, yeah,
Peter Ankerstjerne 31:59
I’m sure you have it. And you know, Washington, and Minnesota and Michigan and all these places in Canada, they just don’t call it a fancy name, but it’s probably the safe they have up there as well. They were forced to do that because of the weather. Yeah,
Greg Owens 32:14
the adult definitely has it, right. Like when I go to Seattle, I love like the bookstores and cafes and that kind of stuff, because they’re super cozy, right? And they make the environment so inviting people and you can spend some serious time there and get into some good work, right. And I also would also like to about that, not always, because they get so much rain, like San Francisco, as soon as it starts raining, it’s like the people are made of sugar. And they, they they go back, they don’t go out, they close the schools, if it starts raining, it’s been nuts, right? In Seattle, it starts raining, and people just like, you know, put their jacket on and keep walking through it with water. So
Peter Ankerstjerne 32:52
I think it’s the same in Copenhagen and Stockholm. I think they’re very similar also, to Seattle, and you’re dealt to deal with the weather, right? And you just have to do the best you can. And you just get on with it. I mean, it’s like in London, if it’s no, and you know, the Heathrow shuts down and the no cars on the streets and stuff. And you’ve got like, you know, a couple of inches of snow. And in Denmark, you have, you know, in Sweden or Norway in particular, it’s like you have a feet of snow and nobody bothers it’s, you know, people are going on to the bicycles. And it’s like, you know, just get on with it. So, yeah, you deal with it? Can
Greg Owens 33:30
I have a book in my audible sort of lift around the art of raising kid the Denmark way of raising kids? Okay, which is also like I was, and I only get books that are recommended to me by people that I highly respect, you know, and that one came up, and I don’t even have any of my own kids. But I was like, I wonder what they’re doing. In Denmark. You have any thoughts? How are your children? Are they well behaved?
Peter Ankerstjerne 33:58
I started from VNF saturation to call them well behaved. But they’re free spirits. I don’t know. I don’t know if things you know, sometimes, you feel that we have a little bit of a hippie culture. Because we believe in individualism. And I don’t know if we have a special way of raising our kids. Maybe I don’t know, maybe, again, you know, when you’re in the middle of it, and you live it that day. And maybe that’s that thing. Things are good marketers. That’s what they are. We have a good way of coming up with these weird names. It’s almost like the Norwegians, you know, I’m sure the Norwegians made a huge deal with destiny on the whole frozen stuff that just brought in 1000s and 1000s of tourists into Norway. Right. Hold
Greg Owens 34:40
on Norway. No gun Norway, right. Yeah. And I think you’re right on that. And then the Northern Lights and all of that, right.
Peter Ankerstjerne 34:47
Yeah, exactly.
Greg Owens 34:49
Close to wrapping this up. You know, one of the things I’ve been doing on this podcast is I’m exploring how somebody that’s looking into facilities management property. Management, this industry and all the other components like the software industry Planon and different things like that, how are you going to start looking at this because I think a lot of people don’t know, this is a really cool, fun, interesting career path in a lot of ways, right? And you work for JLL and that kind of thing in those companies. And it’s such a interesting job for certain types of people that like to be a generalist and problem solving, and be on your feet in a lot of ways all day long, because you’re always moving and always looking at new buildings and stuff. Tell me what tell our audience like what people can do if they’re interested in this type of work?
Peter Ankerstjerne 35:37
Yeah, no, it’s a great point, Greg, because I think, you know, I think one of the issues that part of our most part of my spare time I also use in the International Facility Management Association, and I’m the chairman of the board. And this is a question that frequently comes up and say, how can we make facility management a career choice? I think we have, in general, the industry, we have done fairly well, over the last 10 years, if you talk to people who have been within facility management for more than 10 years, they typically say, you know, I fell into the industry that was originally, I was originally a chemical chemical engineer, or something like that, and all of a sudden, somebody had to take care of the facilities. And then I did it. And now, you know, it’s my career. But But now, I mean, there are a lot of universities that offer facility management, you know, curriculums, and and, you know, courses and everything like that, you can become a member of this map, there’s a lot of training, there’s a lot of career opportunities, and, and especially internationally in other parts of the world and know, Funny enough, in the Netherlands, the Netherlands is probably the country that actually educates the most facility managers through the universities and technical schools, which is a little bit strange, but it’s whether they have a different schooling system, but but you can become a facility manager, it’s a career like you can become a doctor or lawyer or something like that. And that’s, of course, where we want to be internationally with this, because it’s a huge industry, it’s a $1.1 trillion industry. And people tend to forget about that. Because it’s, I mean, this is bigger than the telecom industry worldwide. I mean, it’s one of the biggest industries in the world. And it’s still that tight little group of people, you know, and it’s not often seen as a career of choice, which is should be and radius, which is increasingly becoming. So it’s a great place. And I’m happy to say that more universities are doing this more and more technical schools are doing this, we’re doing a lot of information and training on on high school students also to make sure that they take the right choice if they want to become or pursue a career in FM, when they also go into university. And then there’s a lot of after school training, adult training, once you have, you know, graduated from university, you can still take that turn in your career and then qualify to become a facility manager. So I think today, there are a lot of opportunities that there weren’t around, you know, 1020 years ago, but we still have an image issue around, you know, it’s cool to be a facility manager, it is really cool, because there’s so much opportunity there. And especially as the, you know, profession moves from being a very technical discipline into becoming more of a hospitality, digital, it enabled discipline with a lot of psychology and leadership issues in there. I think it deserves a better reputation and the image than I think it had 20 years ago. So we’re slowly but surely moving in that direction. So and it’s good that you know, podcasts like this, and people like you and Katrina are a part of that journey. So more people talk about it. And the more people that sees it as a cool career choice, I
Greg Owens 38:30
think the better it is for us. Right. And Katrina here is very involved in ifma in the San Francisco area, and is going to start doing programs, I believe, right?
Katrina Stevenson 38:39
Yes, I was just myself and my co worker, our co chairs for the SF chapter. And it’s just excellent. today. We were just like you said, right place right time, it was kind of we volunteered to help out. And then next thing, you know, we’re programs committee. So yeah. And I have a wealth of knowledge.
Peter Ankerstjerne 38:58
Yeah.
Yeah, there’s so much knowledge. And there’s so many passionate people out there. I’ve been a member of IFMA since 2005. And it’s almost like a family. When we get together. It’s really a lot of fun. So I really enjoy them.
Greg Owens 39:10
Yeah. Great. And I think you’re right, like and i think is like companies like Planon coming in. And more of this technology kind of makes the whole industry sexier. And with that environmental angle you’re talking about right? Of how do we go into these buildings and make sure that like, all the lights go off, and the air conditioning is not running when nobody’s using them? The only way that’s going to work is through technology, right? Because you never worried that your parents telling you to turn lights off, right?
Peter Ankerstjerne 39:39
It’s actually I mean, according to un 38% of all co2 emissions comes from the built environment. So facility managers have a huge impact on control. And a lot of this stuff is like we talked about before it’s well within the facility managers remit to make some of these changes. We don’t even have to ask for permission because some of the savings that we can get out of making some money better choices that are more environmentally friendly, they are offset by the investment to make money and that, you know, very, very quickly. So there’s a lot of stuff we can do within our area of responsibility that we just need to get get going on. So yeah, definitely we do have a lot of impact. And we do have, you know, on the environmental side, we do have the power to change the world in that regard.
Greg Owens 40:20
Yeah, that’s a good selling point, too. I think young people, a lot of young people really want to make a difference, especially towards the environment. Right. And here’s this is an industry with a lot of legacy old buildings that could be updating and just use that sort of strategy or, and come in and make those changes.
Yeah. Well, this has been absolutely wonderful. What time is it there in Denmark?
Peter Ankerstjerne 40:42
It’s, what is it? It’s 1020 at night.
Katrina Stevenson 40:46
Wow.
Greg Owens 40:47
Thank you so much for being on the show.
Peter Ankerstjerne 40:50
Thanks for inviting me. It was a lot of fun. I enjoyed it very much and great discussion. So thanks for the invitation. It was a great pleasure to be on your show. Yeah,
Greg Owens 40:59
I haven’t made it to Denmark. And you know, Katrina wants to get out and travel when we can and you know if we can, at some point, pick you out for for an anchor steam. What I don’t sell those in March. But if you can come here
Peter Ankerstjerne 41:15
have to come by?
Greg Owens 41:16
Yeah, or a cafe or whatever it is. Absolute pleasure. Thank you for taking the time. Peter Ankerstjerne, on the Watching Paint Dry Podcast. How would people get ahold of you? If they want to learn more? Would LinkedIn be the best way? So we put that up in the show notes?
Peter Ankerstjerne 41:32
Yeah, LinkedIn is absolutely. One of my favorite places. I spend a lot of time on LinkedIn. But I’m also on Twitter, but LinkedIn is probably the preferred social media.
Greg Owens 41:41
Okay, that sounds great. And have a wonderful evening. Enjoy the rest of the time and we’ll hopefully you get a chance to chat to this has been an absolute Thank you so much.
Outro 42:01
Thanks for listening to the Watching Paint Dry Podcast. We’ll see you again next time. And be sure to click subscribe to get future episodes.